Good mass builders for delts

[Mr.Nick]

So I noticed my delts are seriously lacking in size compared to the rest of me and want to fix that. I have relatively weak shoulders and I think that's part of the reason I have trouble benching, due to my weak delts. I've been hitting delts hard lately and they're getting stronger little by little.

Besides just military press (bb and db) what are good mass building exercises when it comes to delts? Also, behind the neck military press is pretty much considered a big no no right?

[WetWorks]

I can do behind the neck military press, better than I can go to the front. just don't let your elbows break the 90 degrees and you should be fine. shoulders are really just making sure you hit every head. front raises, side raises, and rear raises. do perfect form and they will come along nicely.

[Action]

I used to do a lot of behind the neck military press and stopped because of the shoulder problems I was getting.

I love dumbbell raises. Straight, seated dumbbell raises are awesome and so effective.

Also standing superman dumbbell flyes for the side delts.

[masswithclass]

IMHO...#1 mass builder is going to be presses. I don't use the barbell for anything, but squats, good mornings or deadlifts. I think the barbell is horrible for the shoulders, especially behind the neck. My fav is heavy seated dumbell presses. I mean heavy as fuck and I keep my reps between 10-15. Heavy weighs and lots of reps works for me.

[powerman]

Originally Posted by Action

I used to do a lot of behind the neck military press and stopped because of the shoulder problems I was getting.

I love dumbbell raises. Straight, seated dumbbell raises are awesome and so effective.

Also standing superman dumbbell flyes for the side delts.

I cannot do anything behind the neck due to compressed discs in neck. If you can do them theres nothing wrong with behind the neck presses.
Barbell or Dumbell presses seated or standing obviously should be your staple, and bump Action on the raises i do front side and rear . You can also try barbell front raise for a change of pace . Power cleans are good to go as well

[masswithclass]

Just be careful if you are going to do behind the neck presses. It is kind of an old school lift and works for many, but not worth the risk for me personally. I respect everyone's opinion on their thoughs and I definately don't mean this with any disrespect. Here is one opinion below...

The behind-the-neck press is a common exercise. In fact, everyone who picks up a weight tries it at some point. Some stick with it, and some don't, but generally speaking, those who drop it from their routines do so permanently. There are a number of reasons for that.

The main problem involves shoulder girdle flexibility-two components of the behind-the-neck press require more flexibility than the military, or front, press requires. The first is the starting position, where your shoulders are raised and externally rotated; that is, a position of full lateral rotation of the shoulders while they're abducted, It's the same whether you perform the exercise seated or standing-your upper arms are parallel to the floor as your forearms point straight up.

The second component that requires shoulder girdle flexibility is the ability to pull your shoulders back into a military posture, or scapular retraction, while maintaining the externally rotated position. If you can do those two things, then you have the necessary flexibility to perform behind-the-neck presses. If you don't, you should avoid the exercise. Otherwise, you invite injury and setbacks.

The problem is usually that the muscles that effect internal shoulder rotation, the agonists of the movement, are too tight. They include the pectoralis major, or pec; the teres major, or upper lat; latissimus dorsi, or at; and the subscapularis, which is part of the rotator cuff. While the anterior, or front, delt isn't one of the internal rotators, it, too, can prevent external rotation if it's too tight.

If you can't achieve full external rotation of the shoulders, then the external rotators of the rotator cuff-the infraspinatus and teres minor-must work too hard against the internal rotators in addition to supporting the shoulder joint during the pressing motion. Simply put, the external rotators can't overcome the excessive tightness and mass of the internal rotators. It causes too much strain. When you add the weight of the barbell, the muscles become overburdened and are subjected to a form of mechanical strain that produces injuries. Needless to say, that stress can cause shoulder pain stemming from a strain of the rotator cuff, the biceps tendon, the deltoid, the bursa (a fluid-filled sac that assists in protecting tendons from erosion) or the ligaments of the joint.

All that said, there's another problem that results from performing behind-the-neck presses when you have poor flexibility. Trainees who cannot achieve the necessary range of motion with their shoulders usually compensate by rounding their upper backs and lowering their necks to angle the neck and head forward. That gets the neck out of the way so the bar can travel behind it, but it also makes matters worse because the shoulder must try even harder to make the bar travel upward, and the neck drops to a less stable position. The upper trapezius, which is attached to the neck, works very hard when you do behind-the-neck presses, and the contraction of the trapezius produces significant force on your neck, especially if the neck isn't stable. Note that this neck strain can occur even if you have an adequate range of shoulder motion, but a poor range will add to it.

Another potential for injury occurs when trainees strain to get one more rep at the end of a set, and their necks strain excessively in the press position, as discussed above. The neck isn't an accessory muscle in this lift. The safest position is to hold it somewhat, but not completely, relaxed.

Excessive neck strain can damage one of the disks between the bony vertebrae in the neck, causing it to herniate, or protrude, and producing nerve damage. That can be a serious problem, the symptoms of which include pain radiating down the arm; numbness in the arm or hand; weakness of the shoulder, arm or hand muscles; and possible atrophy of certain muscles. I If you can do this exercise, another way to make it easier and a little safer is to start in the top position, using a power rack with the bar hooks- not the long pins-set high.

[Gman]

I go with mass here I have really awsome shoulders and can lift really heavy weights. I do 140# db presses for reps. To me they are the best single mass builder for the shoulders. Don't pussy out and go only half way down, like so many whimps, no go all the way till the db touches the outside of the shoulder. Typically much lower than most peeps go. Another variant is Arnold Presses use these for variety. Barbell front presses are good but again most peeps don't go low enough to engage all the delts. I will rest the bar on my upper chest on each rep then push it up. Again go heavy as fuck I begin with 225 for 25 reps then work up to 315 for 4-8 reps I do them seated so sometimes I can cheat it up by turning it into sort of an incline press just to get that last one.

[thugjitsu]

Originally Posted by Gman

I go with mass here I have really awsome shoulders and can lift really heavy weights. I do 140# db presses for reps. To me they are the best single mass builder for the shoulders. Don't pussy out and go only half way down, like so many whimps, no go all the way till the db touches the outside of the shoulder. Typically much lower than most peeps go. Another variant is Arnold Presses use these for variety. Barbell front presses are good but again most peeps don't go low enough to engage all the delts. I will rest the bar on my upper chest on each rep then push it up. Again go heavy as fuck I begin with 225 for 25 reps then work up to 315 for 4-8 reps I do them seated so sometimes I can cheat it up by turning it into sort of an incline press just to get that last one.

That is beast on the front presses G. Im with you, go deep...

I do heavy presses as well. I like to superset my other shoulder exercises: side raises, front raises and rear raises - all heavy 5-8 reps
Upright rows hit the delts as well

[Mr.Nick]

Thanks guys. My shoulder day as of lately has been the following:

DB military presses 4x10 then super setted with front raises 4x10 (per side)

I do a cable crossover exercise (don't know the name) where you grab the cables by the balls and cross them in front of you then basically do a reverse fly to hit the rear delts 5x12

I do side raises but with cables crossed behind my back which a brutal exercise 5x12

Shrugs 5x12 bb or db depending on how crowded the gym is

BB military press 4x12


I've been making some progress but made the mistake of not having a dedicated shoulder day until the very end of my cycle so it's been kind of slow going. I got this routine from my buddy who knows his shit and is pretty ripped himself, but I'm open to suggestions if you have a better routine.

[powerman]

Originally Posted by Gman

I go with mass here I have really awsome shoulders and can lift really heavy weights. I do 140# db presses for reps. To me they are the best single mass builder for the shoulders. Don't pussy out and go only half way down, like so many whimps, no go all the way till the db touches the outside of the shoulder. Typically much lower than most peeps go. Another variant is Arnold Presses use these for variety. Barbell front presses are good but again most peeps don't go low enough to engage all the delts. I will rest the bar on my upper chest on each rep then push it up. Again go heavy as fuck I begin with 225 for 25 reps then work up to 315 for 4-8 reps I do them seated so sometimes I can cheat it up by turning it into sort of an incline press just to get that last one.

You are a f---in animal G-man.That is some SERIOUS weight. Can you get the 140s up by yourself?

[masswithclass]

My last .02 on this. Don't get caught up in doing a bunch of complex exercises that hits this muscle and that muscle. If you're working front, middle or rear heads, just work the he'll out of that head. Superset that head if you want, but switching the target muscle, IMHO, gives that muscle too much rest, and intensity on that particular muscle is lost. Be open to everyone's advice here and use what works best for your body. Good luck brothers!

[Gman]

Originally Posted by supy1962

You are a f---in animal G-man.That is some SERIOUS weight. Can you get the 140s up by yourself?

I can get the 130's up just barely and the 140's have to be handed. The first rep is a bitch since they are sitting so low but I can usually get 4 really good ones and then a forced one or two.

Nick, My opinion: you are doing way too many sets. Keep it basic and lower your overall set count. For me low sets really work, I do 1-2 warm up sets then 2 heavy sets. I use 3 exercises for shoulders so that makes it a total of 6 hard sets. They are a small muscle group and it don't take much to overtrain them. This is just me you might be different, but at 45'ish I have to really limit my overall set count. I up the intensity instead of sets or reps.

[powerman]

[QUOTE=Gman;72061]I can get the 130's up just barely and the 140's have to be handed. The first rep is a bitch since they are sitting so low but I can usually get 4 really good ones and then a forced one or two.

Holy shit thats some bad ass strength. I can do 80s for 10-13 reps but cant get the 90s up myself( no partner to help)

[shotgun]

holy shit and I was feeling good with my 8 reps @ 225 damn g man thats some serious weight 315 military thats some serious shit

[powerman]

Originally Posted by shotgun

holy shit and I was feeling good with my 8 reps @ 225 damn g man thats some serious weight 315 military thats some serious shit

I thought i was doin good gettin 275 for 1-2 on the Smith machine.....lol

[breakthrough]

My favorite is seated front barbell military presses. I come down until the bar touches my chin which for me is a little beyond 90 degrees but not much. The most I've ever done was 225 for 1 rep. It sometimes causes a little discomfort in the clavicle area. I switch to dumbbells when this starts to happen.

[mike0286]

how the hell do you do rear raises?

[breakthrough]

Originally Posted by mike0286

how the hell do you do rear raises?

I think he may have been referring to bent over reverse dumbbell flys....but I'm not sure.

[mike0286]

Originally Posted by breakthrough

I think he may have been referring to bent over reverse dumbbell flys....but I'm not sure.

That's the only thing i could think of....I was like how does that work lol

[Mr.Nick]

Originally Posted by mike0286

how the hell do you do rear raises?

If you're referring to my post, then yes I guess you could call that exercise a rear lateral raise if there is such a thing, and I know about bent over lat raises, this is different.

My buddy showed it to me and it's a brutal ass exercise that you can only get small amounts of weight up with. To do it, you cross the cables behind your back and raise them up exactly how you'd do normal lat raises, it just hits a different part of your shoulder. You have to take a step forward when you have the cables, kinda like doing crossovers for chest, that way you get the proper clearance. It's supposed to really strengthen the supraspinatus, which is a weak point a lot of people have. I've made pretty decent strength gains on that one exercise alone and my shoulders have been feeling better on other exercises they normally bother me on. My buddy that showed it to me is certified as a personal trainer (I know a lot of them suck), but he really knows his shit. He told me that being weak in that area of my shoulders might be part of the reason I've had trouble on the bench.

Now that might all just be a buncha bs, but my shoulders feel better than ever and as a result, I'm getting much stronger on the bench.

[breakthrough]

Bottom line is, presses rule. Over head press of any kind hits your entire delt.

[crazedhate]

dang Gman, you're the new shoulder strength king round here.
as for me, haters keep hatin', but i got me some big shoulders and a wide back. these are the two muscle groups everyone compliments and inquires about. as for as shoulders, i just think thats bout the only good genetics i have. seems most upper body exercises i can feel it a little in the shoulders and after all these years of training they have just built up.
for me i have always done me a lot of dumbbell shoulder presses and lots of both front and BEHIND the neck smith presses. doing behind the neck is old school and works all the three heads the best for a single exercise. ppl go too heavy and thats why they get themselves injured. finish with em' and just go heavy enough that you are working and pumping the muscle...
but what works for me isn't going to work for everyone...

[breakthrough]

Originally Posted by crazedhate

dang Gman, you're the new shoulder strength king round here.
as for me, haters keep hatin', but i got me some big shoulders and a wide back. these are the two muscle groups everyone compliments and inquires about. as for as shoulders, i just think thats bout the only good genetics i have. seems most upper body exercises i can feel it a little in the shoulders and after all these years of training they have just built up.
for me i have always done me a lot of dumbbell shoulder presses and lots of both front and BEHIND the neck smith presses. doing behind the neck is old school and works all the three heads the best for a single exercise. ppl go too heavy and thats why they get themselves injured. finish with em' and just go heavy enough that you are working and pumping the muscle...
but what works for me isn't going to work for everyone...

I feel the same way. It's almost like your shoulders can keep up without doing shoulders.

[Gman]

Shoulders are really my thing I love to train them and am the strongest person in the gym on them by a long shot....You have got to get into the mind set that you are going to lift big time weights and just do it. My shoulders responded really quickly to weight training. My weak area is chest I compensate for weak chest with strong shoulders. I can do more on incline press then on flat bench. Heck I can probably do more military press than flats... I would stay away from the shaping exercises except the rear delt work. Take a couple of pics and post them for us to see then take a couple in several months to compare.

[Mr.Nick]

Originally Posted by Gman

Shoulders are really my thing I love to train them and am the strongest person in the gym on them by a long shot....You have got to get into the mind set that you are going to lift big time weights and just do it. My shoulders responded really quickly to weight training. My weak area is chest I compensate for weak chest with strong shoulders. I can do more on incline press then on flat bench. Heck I can probably do more military press than flats... I would stay away from the shaping exercises except the rear delt work. Take a couple of pics and post them for us to see then take a couple in several months to compare.

Good Idea. I'll try to get some pics for comparison sake. I may not get too much size b/c I'm gonna try to get leaner once I'm completely out of pct starting around the first of the yr. I'll still be lifting heavy, but I'm gonna be much more strict on my diet by limiting carbs and doing a lot more cardio. We'll see how it turns out.