New Program....or just stick with what I have?

[Nick!]

Hey guys,

My lifting partner got this workout from a trainer at a gym he used to be a member of. This is going to be a LOOOOOONGGG ass post, lol, so please bear with me. He sent me a copy of the training program, so I'll just copy and paste it word-for-word here. After I post this trainers workout, I'll post what we're currently doing and would like everyone's opinion on which one is better, or how to combine certain parts from both to make one top-notch routine! So, without further ado, lol, here's the trainer's suggested workout...

"Four Week Rotation

Weeks 1-3, rest 1 minute between sets, 2 minutes between exercises
Weeks 4-6, rest 2 minutes between sets, 3 minutes between exercises
Begin rotation again on Week 7.

Wide Grip--wider than shoulder width
Shoulder With Grip
Narrow Grip--narrower than shoulder width

Note: All movements with the exception of squats/deads, regardless of rep range, should have a 3 second eccentric phase, and a 2 second concentric phase. Squeeze at the end of all movements during the "peak" contraction. Use 1-2 warm-up sets prior to each body part being worked but no more than needed.

10 Rules

1) You must follow the prescribed rest periods as they directly influence the repetition range and weight chosen. If you don't, the weight may be too light or too heavy. This will no doubt be hard to do, as you will be winded. But, you must get into shape to train properly. More so, by using the cumulative fatigue factor, we train hypertrophy over neural recruitment. In otherwords, you will gain muscle instead of just getting stronger.

2) You must follow the variations in grip width and stances to compensate for any weaknesses in your physique and strength.

3)You must use the following notion of failure. When your form becomes bad, that is failure on my program. For example, if I say that you need to do three sets with the weight and be able to complete the required repetitions=10 before increasing weight, what that means is that if you fail on the second and third sets at lesser repetitions, for example 9 and 8, you don't increase the weight until you get all three sets at 10 reps in good form.

4) On your off days, you need to do cardio to help you recover. You will be sore and cardio improves circulation, thus improving your recovery.

5) When you are ready to begin your next six week cycle, begin with the weights that you ended the first three week cycle with. It will be hard, but you will quickly adapt and the program will come into full effect in the second week or so.

6) You will need to get maxes on the following exercises before beginning the program. These numbers will then plug into the program. Without these maxes, you have no place to begin and if they are not accurate, you will impede your progress.

Barbell Rows, wide grip--8 reps.
Front Lat Pulldowns, shoulder width grip, palms facing towards you--11 reps.
Deadlifts--10 reps.
Incline Barbell Presses, shoulder width grip--8 reps.
Flat Dumbell Presses, with the elbows away from the sides of your body--12 reps.
Lying EZ Curl Bar Tricep Extensions (skull crushers)--15 reps.
Dumbell Hammer Curls--15 reps.
Squats, wide stance--12 reps.
Shoulder Press, shoulder width or wider--12 reps.
Barbell Curls, shoulder width--15 reps.
Tricep pushdowns--20 reps

The other exercise poundages need to be done through estimating for that day's session. Once you have the right kind of poundage, note it, and try it for the next time.

7) A superset is done by doing two different exercises back to back with no rest between the exercises. You will rest 2 minutes between supersets, no more.

8) No rest pausing. Once form breaks and you are tired, you are done. We do not want to emphasize the neural aspects. The ONLY exercises that you can push a few extra reps on are calf raises.

9) Do not add exercises or sets to the exercises. Do exactly what is required--no less, no more, and you will grow.

10) If you are not growing one of four things is out of sync: 1) training, 2) nutrition/supplementation, 3) rest/recovery, or 4) outside stress. When these four are in sync, you will grow.

Training Frequency and Exercises

Day One: Back, Traps.

Back
Barbell Rows.
Warm-Up
Set 1--7 reps, wide grip, pulled to nipple line, using a weight you can
do for 8 reps.
Set 2--10 reps, shoulder width grip, pulled into the abs.
(use same weight for both sets, when you can do both sets of required
reps, increase weight)

Front Lat Pulldowns.
Set 1--10 reps, shoulder width grip, palms facing towards you, use a
weight you can do for 11 reps.
Set 2--7 reps, wide grip, palms facing away from you.
(use same weight for both sets, when you can do both sets of
required reps, increase weight)

Deadlifts.
Set 1--7 reps, using a weight you can do for 10 reps.
Set 2--7 reps, using the same weight as Set 1.
(using this scheme, you should be able to put 5-10 lbs. on your DL
every week.)
(use same weight for both sets, when you can do both sets of
required reps, increase weight)

Abs.
Upper ab work--Rope crunches: 2 sets of 12-15 reps supersetted with
Lower ab work--Machine/Leg lifts: 2 sets of 12-15 reps

Day Two: Cardio.

Day Three: Chest, Arms.

Chest.
Incline Barbell Presses.
Warm Ups
Set 1--7 reps, shoulder width grip, using a weight you can do for 8 reps.
Set 2--7-10 reps, wide grip, using the same weight for Set 1.

Flat Dumbell Presses.
Set 1--10 reps, elbows out, using a weight you can do for 12 reps.
Set 2--10 reps, elbows in at your sides, using the same weight.

Dips
Bodyweight x 1 set for as many reps as possible.

Lying EZ Curl Bar Tricep Extensions
Set 1--12 reps, using a weight you can do for 15 reps.
Set 2--12 reps, weight same as Set 1

Dumbell Hammer Curls
Set 1--15 reps, using a weight you can for 15 reps.
Set 2--12 reps, using the weight of Set 1

Day Four: Off/Cardio.

Day Five: Legs.

Squats
Warm Ups
Set 1--wide stance, 10 reps, using a weight you can do for 12 reps.
Set 2--shoulder width stance, 10 reps, using the weight of Set 1
Set 3--narrow stance, 10 reps, using the weight of Set 1.

Hamstrings/Lower Back
Lying leg curls or standing: 2 sets of 20 reps supersetted with
Hyperextensions: 2 sets of 20 reps

Calves
Standing Calf Raises (knees locked): 2 sets of 15 reps supersetted
with Standing Calf Raises (knees unlocked, slightly bent): 2 sets of
15 reps.

Day Six: Shoulders/Arms.

Shoulders
Lateral side raises 2 sets of 12 reps, supersetted
with Lateral rear raises, 2 sets of 12 reps. Tight form is a must.

Shoulder presses, preferably in front of the body.
Set 1--11 reps, using a weight you can do for 12 reps.
Set 2--9 reps, using the same weight as Set 1.
Set 3--8 reps, using the same weight as Set 1.

Biceps
Straight bar curls.
Set 1--12 reps, using a weight you can do for 15 reps.
Set 2--10 reps, using the same weight as Set 1.
Set 3--8 reps, using the same weight as Set 1.

Triceps
Rope Cable Pushdowns/Extensions.
Set 1--15 reps, using a weight you can do for 20 reps.
Set 2--15 reps, using the same weight as Set 1.
Set 3--15 reps, using the same weight as Set 1.

Day Seven:: Cardio

Day Eight:: Begin cycle again"




Now, onto our current workout regimen...

We also do 30 mins on the treadmill everyday except leg day at 15% incline and 4.0 MPH...

Day 1: Chest (4 sets of 6 with everything)
Flat Bench: 2 warm up sets, followed by 4 working sets
Incline
Decline
Mid-pulley, cable crossovers

Day 2: Biceps (4 sets of 6 with everything)
Straight Bar Curls
One-Armed Dumbell Preacher Curls
Straight Bar Reverse Curls
Superset Alternating Dumbell Hammer Curls
Alternating Dumbell Bicep Curls

Forearms (4 sets of 25 with everything)
Back-and-Forth Forearm Wrist Curls
Side-to-Side Forearm Twists

Day 3: Shoulders (4 sets of 12 with everything) & Calves (6 sets of 12 with superset)
Seated Dumbell Presses
Dumbell Side Raises
Dumbell Front Raises
Cable Rear Delt Raises
Behind-the-Back Shrugs
Superset Rotary Calf Raises
Angle Standing Calf Raises

Day 4: Back (4 sets of 6 with everything except pull-ups) Pull-Ups (as a warm-up, 4 sets of 12)
Overhand Barbell Bent-Over Rows
Dumbell Pull-Overs
Lat Pulldowns to Chest
Deadlifts

Day 5: Triceps (4 sets of 6 with everything except dips and rope push-down drop set)
Close-Grip Bench
EZ-Bar French Curls
Dumbell Kickbacks
Dips (4 sets of 15 with body weight)
Rope Push-down Drop Set (6 sets of 10-15, dropping one plate on
the cables after each set)

Day 6: Legs (4 sets of 6 with Squats and Leg Presses, 6 sets of 12 with everything else)
Squats
Leg Presses
Superset Seated Leg Curls
Lying Leg Curls
Superset Inner Hip Adductors
Outer Hip Adductors
Superset Rotary Calf Raises
Angle Standing Calf Raises

Day 7: OFF

I know that was a TONNNNNN of verbage to read, but I just want to finalize one workout routine that I know is the best. We've currently been using our routine for about 2 months.

Thanks so much for taking the time to read through my novel, but I really appreciate and value anyone's input in regards to this matter!!

Oh, and feel free to call me every name in the book after posting something as detailed as this, but I figured including everything is better than skipping things...

Thanks again, and I REALLLLLLY look forward to anyone, and everyone's, thoughts on the perfect workout!

Nick

[davidbl769]

looks good bro, very good post!!!!!!!!!!! you always have to mix it up.

[Nick!]

Originally Posted by davidbl769

looks good bro, very good post!!!!!!!!!!! you always have to mix it up.

So does my current workout look fine in that case? Or should I switch to that trainer's workout??

[davidbl769]

Originally Posted by Nick!

So does my current workout look fine in that case? Or should I switch to that trainer's workout??

whats your goal here?

[Nick!]

Originally Posted by davidbl769

whats your goal here?

My goal is to obviously get bigger/stronger, but keep fat gains to a minimum. If I could gain ~15-20lbs of lean mucle on this cycle I'd be ecstatic, but obviously I'd take more...LOL!! My stats are as follows right now...I'm 5'10" at ~180lbs and 13-15% bf. I'm currently on a cutting diet (gear free, lol) with plans to be at around 170-175lbs with 11-12% bf by the start of this cycle right after the New Year. So, when all is said in done in April, I'd like to be ~190lbs, but maintaing the same bf (if not dropping some fat simultaneously)...

As far as my cycle goes, this is what I'll be running...

Weeks 1-4: 50mg Test Suspension ED
Weeks 1-7: 50mg Anavar ED
Weeks 8-14: 100mg Anavar ED
Weeks 1-14: 100mg Tren/100mg Masteron/100mg Test Prop EOD
Week 15: 100mg Clomid ED, 40mg Nolva ED, 1250mg Tribulus ED
Week 16: 50mg Clomid ED, 40mg nolva ED, 1250mg Tribulus ED
Week 17: 30mg Nolva ED, 1250mg Tribulus ED
Week 18: 20mg Nolva ED, 1250mg Tribulus ED
Week 19: 10mg Nolva ED, 1250mg Tribulus ED
Week 20: 10mg Nolva ED, 1250mg Tribulus ED
Weeks 1-20: Liv52

I'll also be eating about 3,300 calories a day with macro breakdowns of 45p/45c/10f

[davidbl769]

Originally Posted by Nick!

My goal is to obviously get bigger/stronger, but keep fat gains to a minimum. If I could gain ~15-20lbs of lean mucle on this cycle I'd be ecstatic, but obviously I'd take more...LOL!! My stats are as follows right now...I'm 5'10" at ~180lbs and 13-15% bf. I'm currently on a cutting diet (gear free, lol) with plans to be at around 170-175lbs with 11-12% bf by the start of this cycle right after the New Year. So, when all is said in done in April, I'd like to be ~190lbs, but maintaing the same bf (if not dropping some fat simultaneously)...

As far as my cycle goes, this is what I'll be running...

Weeks 1-4: 50mg Test Suspension ED
Weeks 1-7: 50mg Anavar ED
Weeks 8-14: 100mg Anavar ED
Weeks 1-14: 100mg Tren/100mg Masteron/100mg Test Prop EOD
Week 15: 100mg Clomid ED, 40mg Nolva ED, 1250mg Tribulus ED
Week 16: 50mg Clomid ED, 40mg nolva ED, 1250mg Tribulus ED
Week 17: 30mg Nolva ED, 1250mg Tribulus ED
Week 18: 20mg Nolva ED, 1250mg Tribulus ED
Week 19: 10mg Nolva ED, 1250mg Tribulus ED
Week 20: 10mg Nolva ED, 1250mg Tribulus ED
Weeks 1-20: Liv52

I'll also be eating about 3,300 calories a day with macro breakdowns of 45p/45c/10f

the only thing i would change is your reps. for example bigger muscles.
chest, first set 10reps, 2nd set 8 reps, 3rd set 7 reps, 4th set 6reps maxed out. remember you are adding weight every set. and the same with smaller muscles, like bis, but start at 12 reps 1st set and work down. if you do the same amount of reps every time your gains will stop. you have to shock your muscles everytime and you'll have great results.

[Nick!]

Originally Posted by davidbl769

the only thing i would change is your reps. for example bigger muscles.
chest, first set 10reps, 2nd set 8 reps, 3rd set 7 reps, 4th set 6reps maxed out. remember you are adding weight every set. and the same with smaller muscles, like bis, but start at 12 reps 1st set and work down. if you do the same amount of reps every time your gains will stop. you have to shock your muscles everytime and you'll have great results.

Ahhhh, I getcha!! I never thought of it like that, but I'm glad you pointed it out to me now, so I can start it tomorrow!!

So yea, if you think my current workout is fine, I'll stick with that and just do the suggested rep changes that you gave me and go from there...

Thanks a ton bro, I really appreciate the help. And also thank you TREMENDOUSLY for actually reading the novel I wrote, lol...

[davidbl769]

Originally Posted by Nick!

Ahhhh, I getcha!! I never thought of it like that, but I'm glad you pointed it out to me now, so I can start it tomorrow!!

So yea, if you think my current workout is fine, I'll stick with that and just do the suggested rep changes that you gave me and go from there...

Thanks a ton bro, I really appreciate the help. And also thank you TREMENDOUSLY for actually reading the novel I wrote, lol...

just keep us posted how things go. plus maybe every week in a half change up on exercises also. for example wide grip bech press, bring grip about 2 inches in so you can still handle the weight. remember don't slack in the leg department. always change the way your toes are pointed on calve days. they will get big. thats one thing i can't stand is a big dude with little calves and legs.good luck

[Nick!]

Originally Posted by davidbl769

just keep us posted how things go. plus maybe every week in a half change up on exercises also. for example wide grip bech press, bring grip about 2 inches in so you can still handle the weight. remember don't slack in the leg department. always change the way your toes are pointed on calve days. they will get big. thats one thing i can't stand is a big dude with little calves and legs.good luck

Will do!!

And yea, my calves are tiny as all hell right now, so I'll defnitely be switching up my stance from now on too!

Thanks again for the pointers bro!!

[tom123]

your trainers wo regine is much better for 'gaining mass', your regine has way too many exercises, its not about volume its intensity eg. flat bench you've put 2 warm ups 4 working sets, if it takes 4 sets to damage the muscle fibres you aint working them hard enough. 2 warm ups 2 heavy sets job done ithink of it as just a stimulus.
Not sure you've typed it correctly as it seems to suggest using the same weight for all 3 sets on everything (trainers 1).

[Nick!]

Originally Posted by tom123

your trainers wo regine is much better for 'gaining mass', your regine has way too many exercises, its not about volume its intensity eg. flat bench you've put 2 warm ups 4 working sets, if it takes 4 sets to damage the muscle fibres you aint working them hard enough. 2 warm ups 2 heavy sets job done ithink of it as just a stimulus.
Not sure you've typed it correctly as it seems to suggest using the same weight for all 3 sets on everything (trainers 1).

Yea, he suggests the same weight on his sets, so I don't quite get that part either. Is there any way to adjust my current program to either cut sets and/or remove exercises? Or does everyone suggest taking days off during the week? Right now, I just do my cardio everyday after training...is that a bad thing?

If cardio everyday is a bad thing, how would you adjust his program to get better results and gain more mass?

[davidbl769]

Originally Posted by Nick!

Yea, he suggests the same weight on his sets, so I don't quite get that part either. Is there any way to adjust my current program to either cut sets and/or remove exercises? Or does everyone suggest taking days off during the week? Right now, I just do my cardio everyday after training...is that a bad thing?

If cardio everyday is a bad thing, how would you adjust his program to get better results and gain more mass?

for gaining mass i would throw out the cardio. and you want to do like 3 days on one day off for example. you need time off for your muscles to recoupe.

[Nick!]

Originally Posted by davidbl769

for gaining mass i would throw out the cardio. and you want to do like 3 days on one day off for example. you need time off for your muscles to recoupe.

Oops, my bad. I guess I should've been more specific when I used the word mass...I meant "lean" mass, not too much bulk.

Would even doing 30 minutes, 5 days a week on the treadmill at 4.0 mph hinder my muscle gains? Or would that low of an intensity for that short duration be ok??

[davidbl769]

Originally Posted by Nick!

Oops, my bad. I guess I should've been more specific when I used the word mass...I meant "lean" mass, not too much bulk.

Would even doing 30 minutes, 5 days a week on the treadmill at 4.0 mph hinder my muscle gains? Or would that low of an intensity for that short duration be ok??

you'll be fine. my definition of mass is diff. it's all good bro.

[zidane9979]

Originally Posted by Nick!

Oops, my bad. I guess I should've been more specific when I used the word mass...I meant "lean" mass, not too much bulk.

Would even doing 30 minutes, 5 days a week on the treadmill at 4.0 mph hinder my muscle gains? Or would that low of an intensity for that short duration be ok??

it depends on your body type, like do u have a hard time putting on mass? or do u put on mass fast but cant get lean? this will decide what is best as far as cardio goes..

[Nick!]

My sticking point is to get lean. I've always been able to put on at least 20-30lbs. when on cycle, but losing fat is very hard for me to do; however, gaining the fat is TREMENDOUSLY easy!! I probably have one of the slowest metabolisms EVER, lol.

Also, in terms of my workout routine again, should I limit my muscle groups to 12-15 sets max per day like Badstone suggested in his post from a couple weeks ago??

[Nick!]

Sorry to be such a pain in the ass, but does everyone think that I should switch it up to a 2 or 3 days on and 1 day off type of routine? Almost everywhere I look, I see people doing that. Hell, if that's what works best, I'm willing to make the switch!

[davidbl769]

Originally Posted by Nick!

Sorry to be such a pain in the ass, but does everyone think that I should switch it up to a 2 or 3 days on and 1 day off type of routine? Almost everywhere I look, I see people doing that. Hell, if that's what works best, I'm willing to make the switch!

bro, your not being a pain in the ass. you have to do what works for you. i do 3 on 1 off, 4 on 1 off repeat. that works for me. go with your gut.

[Nick!]

Originally Posted by davidbl769

bro, your not being a pain in the ass. you have to do what works for you. i do 3 on 1 off, 4 on 1 off repeat. that works for me. go with your gut.

I gotcha. So if I'm still getting results with doing my 6 days on, 1 day off...that's not a problem? But obviously just increase the resistance consistenly, right?

[davidbl769]

you'll be fine. just switch up every wk or 2.

[Nick!]

Originally Posted by davidbl769

you'll be fine. just switch up every wk or 2.

By switching up every week or two, do you just mean my grips and foot/leg positions and stuff like that?

[davidbl769]

Originally Posted by Nick!

By switching up every week or two, do you just mean my grips and foot/leg positions and stuff like that?

not just that, but your exercises for body parts as well. good luck bro, you'll be fine.

[Nick!]

Originally Posted by davidbl769

not just that, but your exercises for body parts as well. good luck bro, you'll be fine.

Cool...thanks for all the help bro! I'll definitely keep you guys posted on my results while on cycle too...