PCT options for short and long term cycles

Good article on PCT suggestions for short and long term cycles incorporating Clomid, Nolvadex and Liquidex (Arimidex):

Pheedno's PCT

My post cycle therapy consists of a three compound administration which is designed so that there is a primary and secondary LH stimulator which both are maximizing potential early in the duration; with the primary being phased out in extended protocol. With the addition of an Aromatase Inhibitor, which makes the above possible, the individual will also endure less of an increase in Sex Hormone Binding Globulin, which allows free testosterone levels to reach base line at a much quicker pace. The individual will also see less of a problem in most cases with sexual libido as the bounding SHBG is controlled(to an extent). Below you will find my suggested bare minimum, as well as a sample of an extended protocol. Extended PCT protcol is cycle length dependant so the below is not the standard for all cycles:


PCT for cycles 8-16wks:
Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva

Extended protocol sample for a 12+ month cycle:
Day 1-15_ .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 16-45_.25mg L-dex + 75mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 46-65_.25mg L-dex + 20mg Nolva
Day 66-80_.25mg L-dex

Now IMO, selective estrogen receptor modulators(SERMs) such as Clomiphine and Tamoxifen are selective to which tissues they bind too. Clomid being selective to the suprapituitary, while Tamox is selective to breast, bone, and liver ERs. I've come to this conclusion based on the comparison of studies on both SERMs. In every study showing benefit to HPTA from tamoxifin, the duration of the administration is 3-12months(This includes studies cited by William Llewellyn in his Nolva vs Clomid article). In studies showing levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone checked after short durations of tamox, they were either insignificant, or their was an actual drop. I believe this is because tamox selectively works at the mammery(as well as bone and liver), thus taking longer for LH stimulation to occur.
With clomid, benefit to gonadotrophin concentrations, LH, FSH, and serum testosterone can be seen in short periods of 2-6wks. Because of the apparent selective nature of the two, and given our usual PCT duration, clomid is by far superior at LH stimulation than Nolva. Now both is the wise choice for a couple of reasons:

1. Nolva acts as the preventive measure to the estrogen flux
occured PC while clomid is the primary LH stimulator(Even more so in the case an AI is not used).
2. If your running a longer PCT, clomid needs to be discontinued after a while as it has been shown to desensitize GnRH, this due, IMO, to it's selective nature to the suprapituitary. In the longer forms of PCT, the clomid will be phased out, leaving Nolva and L-dex

Arimidex(or L-dex)
Estrogen is the main inhibitence of restoring HPTA, and AI administration has been shown to increase gonadotrophin concentrations and serum Testosterone by up to 50%. In addition, by adding L-dex, the inhibitence of excess estrogen allows Tamox to work greater at LH stimulation in the begining stages of PCT, since the need to prevent binding in the mammery is lessened by the reduction in estrogen biosynthesis

[Dead23]

Hey guys I don't mean to be questioning the info that you have on here but I've read in several different places that there's no point in taking nolva and L-dex together. Nolva lowers the plasma levels of Arimidex so wouldn't it make the above cycles inneffective.

[Action]

It wouldn't make it ineffective but most people prefer to run Aromasin with Nolvadex and AR's PCT outline shows some pretty good reasons why.

Many people run Femara and Arimidex in their PCT along with Nolva and still have great results.

[Dead23]

Aromasin's a bitchto get a hold of. I would LOVE to do AR PCT but don't know if I'll be able to get the aromasin to be able to do it.

[Action]

Originally Posted by Dead23

Aromasin's a bitchto get a hold of. I would LOVE to do AR PCT but don't know if I'll be able to get the aromasin to be able to do it.

Wow. Things have changed. So there aren't many board sources that have it? Cause I haven't checked in a while.

[barbender]

What is the best way to take this PCT- all 3 at once in the morning? Also should the 100 mg of Clomid be taken all at once or split up through out the day?

[Action]

Originally Posted by barbender

What is the best way to take this PCT- all 3 at once in the morning? Also should the 100 mg of Clomid be taken all at once or split up through out the day?

Split it up throughout the day.

[Dead23]

I've read up more about using L-dex and nolva similtaniously and it's pointless.

This thread would confuse the shit out of newbies reading two conflicting sections of infomation on the exact same site.

[Action]

Originally Posted by Dead23

I've read up more about using L-dex and nolva similtaniously and it's pointless.

Really? Explain that one...I'd love to hear how it's pointless.

Originally Posted by Dead23

This thread would confuse the shit out of newbies reading two conflicting sections of infomation on the exact same site.

How? Explain this one also.

[Dead23]

Okay Action I've obviously hit a nerve here so I'll say that it's not "pointless" but Arimidex isn't going to be 100% effective in your PCT if it's with nolv. I just don't see why anyone would combine the two because A, you're losing money and B, your PCT stack will be weaker overall because what you have stacked will be working against each other instead of complementing each other... That's all. I'm just going off of what I've read and there's no way I'm going to go up against you cause you know everything about this shit.


As for confusing newbies- HELL YEAH!!!

If your Mum said to you as a child “don’t smoke, it’s bad for you” and then pulled a cigarette out of her pocket and started smoking, that’s going to be confusing for the child and it would raise questions... wouldn’t it... Well if you had someone who didn’t know shit about steroids and read in one place

“This drug is contraindicated by the manufacturer and should NOT be used at the same time as Nolvadex, as the latter lowers blood plasma levels of anastrozole... Again, this drug is contraindicated for use with Nolvadex (tamoxifen), as Nolvadex lowers the plasma levels of Arimidex.”

(Wow look at that, it’s been stated twice in the same article. They must really want us to pay attention to this.)

and then they later read in a different section of the same site.

"Good article on PCT suggestions for short and long term cycles incorporating Clomid, Nolvadex and Liquidex (Arimidex)"

Maybe if they read it on a different site they, like me, would ignore this second bit of info because SW is THE site for using gear. But being on the same site people are going to get confused and not know which piece of info to go with.

[Action]

Originally Posted by Dead23

Okay Action I've obviously hit a nerve here so I'll say that it's not "pointless" but Arimidex isn't going to be 100% effective in your PCT if it's with nolv. I just don't see why anyone would combine the two because A, you're losing money and B, your PCT stack will be weaker overall because what you have stacked will be working against each other instead of complementing each other... That's all. I'm just going off of what I've read and there's no way I'm going to go up against you cause you know everything about this shit.


As for confusing newbies- HELL YEAH!!!

If your Mum said to you as a child “don’t smoke, it’s bad for you” and then pulled a cigarette out of her pocket and started smoking, that’s going to be confusing for the child and it would raise questions... wouldn’t it... Well if you had someone who didn’t know shit about steroids and read in one place

“This drug is contraindicated by the manufacturer and should NOT be used at the same time as Nolvadex, as the latter lowers blood plasma levels of anastrozole... Again, this drug is contraindicated for use with Nolvadex (tamoxifen), as Nolvadex lowers the plasma levels of Arimidex.”

(Wow look at that, it’s been stated twice in the same article. They must really want us to pay attention to this.)

and then they later read in a different section of the same site.

"Good article on PCT suggestions for short and long term cycles incorporating Clomid, Nolvadex and Liquidex (Arimidex)"

Maybe if they read it on a different site they, like me, would ignore this second bit of info because SW is THE site for using gear. But being on the same site people are going to get confused and not know which piece of info to go with.

Yes, you did hit a little bit of a nerve, lol. I've also read in a few places that taking Nolva along with Arimi will lower it's blood plasm levels and therefore it's effectiveness. If indeed that Nolva lowers the effectiveness of Arimidex, then it makes much more sense to use a different AI in PCT, such as Aromasin. Overall I've read that any Type II AI such as Arimi and Femara is useless to take with Nolva.

However, I know countless people who have used the two together. And speaking from personal experience (which is probably why you hit the nerve), I've used Arimidex about as many times as I've used Aromasin along with Nolvadex for my PCT and what can I say has been the biggest difference I've noticed in restoring my HPTA levels, keeping my estrogen and cortisol levels down and bouncing back? Not a damn thing.

Arimidex has been around a long time as a very effective, very popular Type II AI along with a SERM like Nolva or Clo.

But your point is indeed well taken and if there are concrete studies that show that Nolva can lower Arimi's effectiveness, then why not stick with a more powerful AI like Femara or something such as Aromasin, which because it's classified as a suicidal AI, will not have it's effectiveness lowered when used with Nolva.

[dieseld]

Fucking spam donkey!

[Justindav]

What's a good trusted place to get this?