Sinjin's HCG Protocol

[Sinjin]

I have to chime in as I have actual data (blood tiders) on subjects to try and figure out what would be the most effective PCT.

HCG is made from the urine of pregnant females (some human, some equine, and other mammalians). It stimulates production of gonadal steroid hormones by causing production of androgen by the testes as it acts as a substitute for luteinizing hormone (it would stimulation ovulation in a female--however the way some people on this board whine--I'm not sure it doesn't cause ovulation in some males ).

The model that is used for AAS PCT is the same as from the therapy for primary and secondary hypogonadism. This is however not the same issue as it is with HTPA suppression following AAS. That being said, it is the only properly conducted medically relevant studies to go on as there is little evidenced based research to illustrate the proper methods needed to recover from AAS use.

Using the basic endocrine theory of negative feedback, if there is an exogenous amount of circulating LH, it should negatively feed back to the hypothalamus and suppress GnRH and also feedback negatively to the anterior pituitary gland (more specifically the basophillic cells) and suppress the release of LH and FSH (by secondary inhibition of the releasing hormone). Tiders drawn pre and post delivery of HCG (at week 1 and week 2 and week 4) were done. At week one and two there is little if any statistically significant change in GnRH, FSH or LH levels and there is significant elevation is serum total testosterone levels. At week four there is a mild depression of LH, FSH and GnRH but not severe (4-18%) in the subjects, but there is a significant fall in serum test levels. The amount of decrease is not consistent with the level of decrease with the gonadotropins. Therefore, hcg isn't the big HTPA suppressor everyone remarks about, but does lend to receptor deficiencies and by that decreases natural test production and would hinder your PCT. (this test is compromised as this test followed a pct in these subjects as I didn't want to run this test in a pct--too many other factors).

This is explained clearly by the clinically observed and tested observation that HCG desensitizes the gonadal LH receptors. Meaning, the receptors ignore the LH binding and subsequent signal. I'm not sure if this is true tachyphylaxis or if there is a structural alteration to the receptor after hcg use.

Therefore, one must understand what hcg does and then apply the good to the PCT. LH primes that atrophied testicle to grow as it has been dormant secondary to exogenous test/AAS use. In the post PCT period, you want your testicles to be able to put out as much test as they can and atrophied testicles cannot do it. Therefore, HCG, IMHO, should begin about 10 days to two weeks prior to the end of the cycle and carry through only about 7 more days post cycle (no longer). 250-500 units per day. We do know that high dose HCG can lead to increase aromatization and therefore higher doses don't make much sense. We also know higher doses lend to quicker desensitization.

To better control your PCT, all my "clients" (I use that term loosely), are switch to short acting AAS towards the end of their cycle even if they used long esters in the cycle. It just becomes more predictable when the levels drop. So everyone I have typically is on prop and a DHT (mast usually) the last two weeks minimum. That is when HCG is added to the mix and upon the stoppage of the AAS after two weeks, HCG is continued.

The other variable that has to be controlled is rising estrogen. We know that nolv doesn't affect circulating estrogen, only begins to decrease its conversion over time and as the circulating estrogen falls, you have then controlled estrogen production. As such, to make sure estogen is controlled, I ask that an AI started about 10 days prior to the end of the cycle (aromasin usually) and I also begin the nolv here as well. I don't carry the AI past the end of the cycle as the estrogen is controlled well now and by now the nolv is keeping new production low. Continuing of the AI too long will overly suppress estrogen and that can be bad in your pct and certainly your lipid profile. Moreover to properly regulate your system and get back online, you'll need your normal ratio or estrogen and test.

Therefore once the testes are primed and ready, and estrogen is controlled, the question is clomid or not in the PCT. From the 88 subjects that were in another Frankenstein little experiment of mine, 31 did not use clomid and simply continued with the nolv taper over 6 weeks (after the AI and HCG). I have some conflicting lab results and on my next experiment I will test other variables at other times plus the labs are on my dime and it gets frickin expensive. However, from interviews and feedback surveys, there is little difference between the two groups. IMHO, I see a value of clomid in the pct, but not for more that two weeks or so (certainly continue with SERMS for at least 4 weeks---longer in older individuals). To me, at this point you've done everything to make the fire (kindling for a fire). Now you're waiting for the spark--the natural spark to re-flame the pilot light and then burner. Adding other things that alter your physiology at that point may not be intelligent. However, that is speculation and without further properly designed "experiments" it is impossible to say. remember boys and girls, everything that is known about the PCT is based on hearsay, anecdotal experiences and poor references to congruent medical studies. As with most things, what works for one, may not be great for another and the old individual variability comes to play here as well.

Anyway, I have to jam, this is what I'm seeing and based on some actual clinical data I can make better educated recommendations.

More to come on this and more whenever I can come up for some air.

[basskiller]

many have started using HCG during the cycle instead of after it to keep the testes active and stop the total testicular function shut down. Having less time your shut down would make PCT easier to come away with..

any thoughts?
Excellent article BTW

[dieselman2388]

excellent write up.

[bulk]

Originally Posted by basskiller

many have started using HCG during the cycle instead of after it to keep the testes active and stop the total testicular function shut down. Having less time your shut down would make PCT easier to come away with..

any thoughts?
Excellent article BTW

Hi
Hcg is better used during cycle, rather than after:
the logic to that is " why bring something back to normal function, if you can prevent it from disfunctioning abnormaly in the first place" prevention is better than cure, hence the reason some folks prefer to use 500iu EOD during a cycle or 2 weeks before a cycle ends:
just my 2 cents.