Using Aromasin and Tamoxifen in PCT

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Using Aromasin with Tamoxifen During Post Steroid Cycle Therapy

Aromasin (Exemestane) is one of those weird compounds that nobody really knows what to do with. What we generally hear about it makes it very uninteresting... It’s a third generation Aromatase Inhibitor.

(AI) just like Arimidex (Anastrozole) and Femera (Letrozole). Both of those two drugs are very efficient at stopping the conversion of androgens into estrogen, and since we have them, why bother with Aromasin? It’s a little harder to get than the other two commonly used aromatase inhibitors, because it’s not in high demand, and there’s never been a readily apparent advantage to using it. And I mean... lets face it: It’s awkward-sounding. Aromasin doesn’t have much of a ring to it, and exemestane is even worse. Arimidex has a bunch of cool abbreviations ("A-dex" or just 'dex) and even Letrozole is just "Letro" to most people. Where’s the cool nickname for Aromasin/exemestane? A-Sin? E-Stane? It just doesn’t work. It’s the black sheep of AIs. And why do we even need it when we have Letrozole, which is by far the most efficient AI for stopping aromatization (the process by which your body converts testosterone into estrogen)? Letro can reduce estrogen levels by 98% or greater; clinically a dose as low as 100mcgs has been shown to provide maximum aromatase inhibition (2)!

So why would we need any other AIs? Well, first of all, estrogen is necessary for healthy joints (3) as well as a healthy immune system (4). So getting rid of 98% of the estrogen in your body for an extended period of time may not be the best of ideas. This may be useful on an extreme cutting cycle, leading up to a bodybuilding contest, or if you are particularly prone to gyno, but certainly can’t be used safely for extended periods of time without compromising your joints and immune system.

That leaves us with Arimidex, which isn’t as potent as Letrozole, but at .5mgs/day will still get rid of around half (50%) of the estrogen in your body. Problem solved, right? Use Arimidex on your typical cycles, and if you are very prone to gyno or are getting ready for a contest, use Letro.

But what about Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)?

I think at this point most people are sold on the use of Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) instead of Clomid for post cycle therapy (PCT), since both compete estrogen at the receptor site, both increase serum test levels, and both drugs may also alter blood lipid profiles favorably (6). But since 20mgs of Tamoxifen is equal to 150mgs of clomid for purposes of testosterone elevation, FSH and LH, but Tamoxifen doesn’t decrease the LH response to LHRH (6) I think most people agree to Nolvadex’s superiority for PCT.

Aromasin with Nolvadex

I’ve always been in favor of using Nolvadex during PCT, along with an AI, because reducing estrogen levels has been positively correlated with an increase in testosterone (7) so in my mind, it’s be beneficial to increase testosterone by as many mechanisms as possible while trying to recover your endogenous testosterone levels after a cycle. SO which AI do we use? Letro or A-dex? Well, why don’t we just keep using whichever one we used during the cycle, and add in some Nolvadex? Unfortunately, Nolvadex will significantly reduce the blood plasma levels of both Letrozole as well as Arimidex (8). So if we choose to use one of them with our Nolvadex on PCT, we’re throwing away a bit of money as the Nolvadex will be reducing their effectiveness.

This, of course, is where Aromasin comes in, at 20-25mgs/day.

Aromasin, at that dose, will raise your testosterone levels by about 60%, and also help out your free to bound testosterone ratio by lowering levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), by about 20% (12)... SHBG is that nasty enzyme that binds to testosterone and renders it useless for building muscle. But what about using it along with Nolvadex for PCT?

Difference Between Type-I and Type-II Aromatase Inhibitors

To understand why Aromasin may be useful in conjunction with Nolvadex while both Letro and A-dex suffer reduced effectiveness, we’ll need to first understand the differences between a Type-I and Type-II Aromatase Inhibitor. Type I inhibitors (like Aromasin) are actually steroidal compounds, while type II inhibitors (like Letro and A-dex) are non-steroidal drugs. Hence, androgenic side effects are very possible with Type-I AIs, and they should probably be avoided by women. Of course, there are some similarities between the two types of AIs…both type I & type II AIs mimic normal substrates (essentially androgens), allowing them to compete with the substrate for access to the binding site on the aromatase enzyme. After this binding, the next step is where things differ greatly for the two different types of AI’s. In the case of a type- I AI, the noncompetitive inhibitor will bind, and the enzyme initiates a sequence of hydroxylation; this hydroxylation produces an unbreakable covalent bond between the inhibitor and the enzyme protein. Now, enzyme activity is permanently blocked; even if all unattached inhibitor is removed. Aromatase enzyme activity can only be restored by new enzyme synthesis. Now, on the other hand, competitive inhibitors, called type II AI’s, reversibly bind to the active enzyme site, and one of two things can happen: 1.) either no enzyme activity is triggered or 2.) the enzyme is somehow triggered without effect. The type II inhibitor can now actually disassociate from the binding site, eventually allowing renewed competition between the inhibitor and the substrate for binding to the site.

This means that the effectiveness of competitive aromatase inhibitors depends on the relative concentrations and affinities of both the inhibitor and the substrate, while this is not so for noncompetitive inhibitors. Aromasin is a type-I inhibitor, meaning that once it has done its job, and deactivated the aromatase enzyme, we don’t need it anymore. Letrozole and Arimidex actually need to remain present to continue their effects. This is possibly why Nolvadex does not alter the pharmacokinetics of Aromasin (11).

Conclusion

Before we close the book on Aromasin, it’s worth noting that you can (and should) still use one of the non-steroidal AIs during your cycle to reduce estrogen, if necessary. When you are ready for PCT, you can then switch over to Aromasin and still experience the full effects of an AI, since there is no cross-over tolerance experienced between steroidal and non-steroidal AIs (9). Since Aromasin is about 65% efficient at suppressing estrogen (10), it’s certainly a very powerful agent, especially considering you won’t experience reduced effectiveness because of your concurrent use of Nolvadex or from any sort of tolerance developed by using other AIs on your cycle(9). There is also a decent amount of preclinical data suggesting that Aromasin has a beneficial effect on bone mineral metabolism that is not seen with non-steroidal agents, and it may also have beneficial effects on lipid metabolism that are not found in the non-steroidal Letro and A-dex (9).

Finally, as we’re going to be using Nolvadex for PCT anyway, and we ought to be using an AI with it for maximum recovery... I think

Aromasin- considering it’s compatibility with Nolvadex and beneficial effects on bone mineral content and lipid profile, has finally stopped being the black sheep of AIs and found a home in our cycles.

[zidane9979]

Aromasin is very powerful, I personally only use 10-12.5 mgs of aromasin on PCT because how strong it is, also I think most over dose Nolvadex too, I never use more then 20 mgs unless I have to. My pct is a slight spin on AR's PCT, I do:

Nolvadex Weeks 1-4 20 mgs a day weeks 5 & 6 10mgs a day
Aromasin Weeks 1-4 12.5 mgs a day weeks 5 & 6 6.25 mgs a day
HCG weeks 1-3 500 iu's a day
Tribulus weeks 1-4 1500 mgs a day

I need a little longer PCT as i get older, but when I do this PCT I get stronger right thru PCT....

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Originally Posted by zidane9979

Aromasin is very powerful, I personally only use 10-12.5 mgs of aromasin on PCT because how strong it is, also I think most over dose Nolvadex too, I never use more then 20 mgs unless I have to. My pct is a slight spin on AR's PCT, I do:

Nolvadex Weeks 1-4 20 mgs a day weeks 5 & 6 10mgs a day
Aromasin Weeks 1-4 12.5 mgs a day weeks 5 & 6 6.25 mgs a day
HCG weeks 1-3 500 iu's a day
Tribulus weeks 1-4 1500 mgs a day

I need a little longer PCT as i get older, but when I do this PCT I get stronger right thru PCT....

Nice Zids. But no Vitamin E? Most guys forget about that when using AR's PCT. It's an integral part of his protocol.

[boris20]

Good post, answered something I was about to ask, and more. Gonna order some to go with my nolva.

[Replicator]

Grand post m8
REP

[Wiggonator]

Ok...so.............alot of jargon there, and i dont mean that rudely.lol.Imean............how much aromasin and how much nolvadex should one take..and.....................how much................and when?........during the cycle.at the end of the cycle?.............or 3 weeks after your cycle?......i see so many different posts.and this is holding me back from placing an order that i keep changing.....i feel bad for my supplier...but sheeesh, i am having a hard time figuring out what i want......and i think i have my order complete, and i click on order..then i change my mind again, and start with somthing else................so here it goes.........can someone help me out with a cycle...............this is my story.

About 12 weeks ago, i purchased some axio 325, and I hit the gym........Things were going really good........until the dreaded rotator cuff !!..........................UGH! this happened about 1/2 way through my cycle. (FYI I did 1 injection a week of 1 cc, for 10 weeks).... I figured this would be a safe first time cycle in about 5-6 years............I kept the injections going, even though i was told i need to get surgery.........I just came back from my ultra sounds, and my Mri's. and my rotator cuff is fine !!......I had a pinched nerve in my back !!!.just under my shoulder blade!!!!!......and this pinched nerve disabled my shoulder from movemenets !!!...completly...i couldnt hold hold my Whammer to take a piss without wincing...........anyhoot...last week, i went to the acupuncture dude, (more needles) lol......and he stuck these needles literly in this ball of cramped muscle, and pinched nerve.and i literly walked out of there rolling both shoulders in a painless motion, and a smile that you couldnt slap off my face !.............2 more sessions later, and I am ready to go......100% !!..........6 weeks of agony and pain.....pain killlers....celebrex.....and sleeping pills cause i couldnt get comfortable to sleep............and a little orientle guy with a shit load of pins fixes me.....Go figure....what a bad diagnosis on the original doctor............Any ways.............so here i am....2 weeks after last injection................and i am ready to give it a go again...............I am overweight..........and i need massive cutting .......as little water retention as possible...............but i need my Whammer in working order....I am not prone to gyno ! (past experience)....but i dont want to take chances.........can someone give me a cycle...from start to finnish............and when to take the anti estrogens, how much to take.....how often.....yada yada yada........

I realy appreciate a helping hand

~Peace~ Wig

[Action]

Have you checked the Anthony Roberts PCT in the PCT section?

[WetWorks]

Originally Posted by GuitarCrazyo

I realize these kind of posts get old, and a waste of time to reply to. ive done probaly no less than 20 hours over the past 2 weeks of searching through posts and i think im ready with my above listed plan. Can you let me know if im in the ballpark please. Thanks

it says it in the article above. here is another article below to read.

http://steroidworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=677

[Replicator]

GuitarCrazyo
Please introduce yourself in the Introduction forum
and post up the rest of your stats
as I am very interested according to these first two

Height: Lana Taylor | Weight: 123456lbs

REP

[Gimichi]

hi...I do not know much about steroids...
Can someone tell me in more details that what they are and what are there benefits?