PCT article

From a vet on another board (excuse the spelling mistakes...this guy must have typed this out in one hour or something):

It gives you a good idea of opinions on PCT and why PCT is so crucial in any cycle...


THE UNOFFICIAL HOW TO DO PCT THREAD

first off i would like to say that people keep asking which PCT should i do for a sust cycle (this is an example) PCT is the same no mater what you take there is no specific PCT set for different compounds. If you are having a long cycle then the PCT will be longer in length you need to find out whats the best that works for you.

then we need to understand why we lose our gains during PCT first of the decrease in water that your body will hold because of much less amortization very low, to none existent test levels, high estrogen level's and high cortisol levels.

with any pct you want to use you want to essay yourself into it this is the first thing i always do to help my PCT if you using a longer ester like test ethanate then move to short one after you finished like test prop start this the day after your last shot of long estered test. Until 3 day's out from pct you should have already worked out when you PCT should start before you started to cycle. also if your using another compound that has a shorter half life E.G. var or winny then run it 24 hours before PCT starts no problem.

I'am not going to go into the different types of pct you can use because there are some many correct ways you just need to find out what work's for you i have done a 20 week cycle with out HCG now i'am not saying this is what you should do but i recovered fine without it.

IMO PCT should consist of one serm and one AI at the very least

one reason why i feel a AI should be used not only will it reduce estrogen in your body to get your test levels up quicker. But most of the bad side affects associated with PCT come from the high estrogen levels. acne depression gyno are just to name a few.

here is a list of some of the AI's and SERMS you can use these are just suggested doses and lengths and will differ from person to person.


AI's:
Arimidex: 3-4 weeks @ .25mg or .5mg ed
Letro: 3 weeks @ .25 or .5mg ed
Aromasin: 3-4 weeks @ 20-25mg ed
proviron 3-4 weeks @ 25mg-50mg ed

SERMS:
Clomiphene: 4 weeks @ 100mg ed first 2 weeks, 50mg ed last 2 weeks.
Tamoxifen: 4-6 weeks @ 20mg ed (40mg ed for first 2 weeks if you wish)


DIET this is so important that i carnet stress this enough. your body is in a VERY catabolic state low test levels high estrogen and cortisol levels. You need to eat more calories and more protein to give your body the fighting chance it need's to hold onto as much muscle as possible. IMO unless your competing putting on a bit extra BF should not be a problem and can be cut post PCT when your levels are back to normal.

CARDIO shall i still do cardio during PCT yes this is still important not only dose it keep fat down but also helps to strengthen the most important muscle and keep you fit. u can in PCT tho do less i would do 30mins at 65%-70% your maxim hate rate. this is very important to keep in these levels and not burn of any muscle i would do this a couple of days a week but everyones different.


TRAINING what i need to do is train harder for less time during PCT i might fit 60mins into 45mins try and not over training i have to up my intensity and this is very hard with low test levels i know this but you need to try get into the gym and out as quick as possible to get more food into you. keep cortisol down also because this will be raised during PCT and it will be a lot easyer to overtrain.


none anabolic steroids I.E. IGF1 SLIN HGH

these are very good tools to use during PCT because they wont hinder your recovery of HPTA yet will still help keep you anabolic

dont run igf1 and slin together IMO take igf1 during your initial 4 week PCT then 4 week's of slin straight after i also use these to bridge to my next cycle slin is very cheap yet DANGOURS and should not be taken lightly

HGH can also be used for a bridge and can be run with slin but if your using it with IGF1 reduce the dosage of igf1 if your administrating HGH during your pct and bridging.

dosages for these i'am not going to go into it personal preference plus it's been covered in the HGH SLIN IGF1 forum

CORTISOL

this is another main reasons that we lose muscle during PCT. because of an increase in protein catabolism. your test levels are very low at this point so your at your weakest.


causes of cortisol?

stress (this is probley the main one)
alchool
low test


what helps reduce cortisol?

clen
igf1
hgh
slin
phospidatly serine dosage approx 800mg
vit c dosage 3 gram plus
L-tyrosine 3 grams plus

HCG

Now there is lot's and lot's and lot's of way's to use HCG in your protocol the best way i feel is to use it the last 2-3 week's of your cycle up until PCT at 250iu per day


you can also run it thorough out your cycle some people use it the week at the halfway point of your cycle. Some people use it twice a week all the way through. you just need to find out what work's for you i'am just giving suggestions but keep the dosage low 250iu to 500iu per day no more.



BLOOD WORK

what to get checked out when you do get checked


> testosterone, total, free and weekly bound
> TSH
> cortisol, total
> t3, free
> t4, free
> igf1
> igfbp-3
> dhea sulphate
> hemoglobin A1C
> fasting insulin
> cbc
> comprehensive metabolic panel
> lipid panal
> GGT (important liver value)
> PSA


in my eyes you should get tested before the start of a cycle to make sure everthing is good to start. half way through a cycle to make sure everything is still ok especially if it's a long cycle and also about 4 week's after PCT to make sure your levels have come to the same point that it was before you started.


PROHORMONE PCT


Most of us, who have been on this board for some time, know that you need a PCT after a PP or SD cycle. New members ask why we need to take all of these substances after a cycle. During a PP or SD cycle, your natural testosterone production can shut down. For many individuals the reduced natural test while put a halt to your sperm production. This is a problem if you want to have a child. After you finish your cycle, it can take months before your body starts to produce test on its own. During this time, your strength levels will diminish, your body fat levels will rise, and you could suffer from depression and have the temptation to jump on again. This would only make matters worse.

What might a typical PCT look like?
Weeks 1-4 100mg of Clomid (SERM) and 25mg of Aromasin (AI)

Why not nolva? Superdrol and pheraplex are progestins which means that means that nolva can cause or make existing gyno worse. Macrophage69alpha (supplement guru): Clomid does not upregulate the PgR (as nolva does). After speaking with Macro, he recommended stacking clomid (SERM) and aromasin (AI) together. The aromasin is not supposed to have a negative impact on blood lipid levels, like other AI's can.

What are some support supplements that I should be concerned with? Go to the supplement forum and examine, closely, Bryan2's stickie on cholesterol, liver, and blood pressure support supplements.

Because SD and PP are progestins, they can be hard on your libido and your ability to have erections, during PCT. I've found that 800-1200mg of tongkat ali to be a good choice for libido purposes. As for the ability to have erections, then the cialis (or viagra) is the only way to go. I prefer cialis because it stays in your system for 36 hours. This lets you be more spontaneous, which your woman will appreciate.

For those of you wanting to make sure your sperm count and motility are up to par, here are some supplements and research chemicals that can help: Arginine, Zinc, Vitamin C, Coenzyme Q10, Flaxseed Oil, L-carnitine, Selenium, Vitamin B12, Vitamin E, DHEA, Panax Ginseng, Astragalus, Sarsaparilla, and Clomid. This is more of a concern for those wanting to father a child.

Good post i enjoy the research Action, Thanks

[ef85]

That's good to know.

[espiros]

Great PCT information.......Thanks Bro.

[kj1212]

Here is a link for some PCT tabs manufactured by IDS. Could someone check out the ingredients and let me know if it is a good idea to add to PCT? The primary ingredients are tribulus and milk thistle, which I know are beneficial, but I do not know whether the other ingredients are good too.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ids/post.html

[espiros]

Originally Posted by kj1212

Here is a link for some PCT tabs manufactured by IDS. Could someone check out the ingredients and let me know if it is a good idea to add to PCT? The primary ingredients are tribulus and milk thistle, which I know are beneficial, but I do not know whether the other ingredients are good too.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ids/post.html

They sound good....The only think I didn't saw is the mags of each compound they do have.

As you know tribulus at least 1000 mgs ED on PCT are need it, more likely 1,500

[bulk]

Originally Posted by Action

From a vet on another board (excuse the spelling mistakes...this guy must have typed this out in one hour or something):

It gives you a good idea of opinions on PCT and why PCT is so crucial in any cycle...


THE UNOFFICIAL HOW TO DO PCT THREAD

first off i would like to say that people keep asking which PCT should i do for a sust cycle (this is an example) PCT is the same no mater what you take there is no specific PCT set for different compounds. If you are having a long cycle then the PCT will be longer in length you need to find out whats the best that works for you.

then we need to understand why we lose our gains during PCT first of the decrease in water that your body will hold because of much less amortization very low, to none existent test levels, high estrogen level's and high cortisol levels.

with any pct you want to use you want to essay yourself into it this is the first thing i always do to help my PCT if you using a longer ester like test ethanate then move to short one after you finished like test prop start this the day after your last shot of long estered test. Until 3 day's out from pct you should have already worked out when you PCT should start before you started to cycle. also if your using another compound that has a shorter half life E.G. var or winny then run it 24 hours before PCT starts no problem.

I'am not going to go into the different types of pct you can use because there are some many correct ways you just need to find out what work's for you i have done a 20 week cycle with out HCG now i'am not saying this is what you should do but i recovered fine without it.

IMO PCT should consist of one serm and one AI at the very least

one reason why i feel a AI should be used not only will it reduce estrogen in your body to get your test levels up quicker. But most of the bad side affects associated with PCT come from the high estrogen levels. acne depression gyno are just to name a few.

here is a list of some of the AI's and SERMS you can use these are just suggested doses and lengths and will differ from person to person.


AI's:
Arimidex: 3-4 weeks @ .25mg or .5mg ed
Letro: 3 weeks @ .25 or .5mg ed
Aromasin: 3-4 weeks @ 20-25mg ed
proviron 3-4 weeks @ 25mg-50mg ed

SERMS:
Clomiphene: 4 weeks @ 100mg ed first 2 weeks, 50mg ed last 2 weeks.
Tamoxifen: 4-6 weeks @ 20mg ed (40mg ed for first 2 weeks if you wish)


DIET this is so important that i carnet stress this enough. your body is in a VERY catabolic state low test levels high estrogen and cortisol levels. You need to eat more calories and more protein to give your body the fighting chance it need's to hold onto as much muscle as possible. IMO unless your competing putting on a bit extra BF should not be a problem and can be cut post PCT when your levels are back to normal.

CARDIO shall i still do cardio during PCT yes this is still important not only dose it keep fat down but also helps to strengthen the most important muscle and keep you fit. u can in PCT tho do less i would do 30mins at 65%-70% your maxim hate rate. this is very important to keep in these levels and not burn of any muscle i would do this a couple of days a week but everyones different.


TRAINING what i need to do is train harder for less time during PCT i might fit 60mins into 45mins try and not over training i have to up my intensity and this is very hard with low test levels i know this but you need to try get into the gym and out as quick as possible to get more food into you. keep cortisol down also because this will be raised during PCT and it will be a lot easyer to overtrain.


none anabolic steroids I.E. IGF1 SLIN HGH

these are very good tools to use during PCT because they wont hinder your recovery of HPTA yet will still help keep you anabolic

dont run igf1 and slin together IMO take igf1 during your initial 4 week PCT then 4 week's of slin straight after i also use these to bridge to my next cycle slin is very cheap yet DANGOURS and should not be taken lightly

HGH can also be used for a bridge and can be run with slin but if your using it with IGF1 reduce the dosage of igf1 if your administrating HGH during your pct and bridging.

dosages for these i'am not going to go into it personal preference plus it's been covered in the HGH SLIN IGF1 forum

CORTISOL

this is another main reasons that we lose muscle during PCT. because of an increase in protein catabolism. your test levels are very low at this point so your at your weakest.


causes of cortisol?

stress (this is probley the main one)
alchool
low test


what helps reduce cortisol?

clen
igf1
hgh
slin
phospidatly serine dosage approx 800mg
vit c dosage 3 gram plus
L-tyrosine 3 grams plus

HCG

Now there is lot's and lot's and lot's of way's to use HCG in your protocol the best way i feel is to use it the last 2-3 week's of your cycle up until PCT at 250iu per day


you can also run it thorough out your cycle some people use it the week at the halfway point of your cycle. Some people use it twice a week all the way through. you just need to find out what work's for you i'am just giving suggestions but keep the dosage low 250iu to 500iu per day no more.



BLOOD WORK

what to get checked out when you do get checked


> testosterone, total, free and weekly bound
> TSH
> cortisol, total
> t3, free
> t4, free
> igf1
> igfbp-3
> dhea sulphate
> hemoglobin A1C
> fasting insulin
> cbc
> comprehensive metabolic panel
> lipid panal
> GGT (important liver value)
> PSA


in my eyes you should get tested before the start of a cycle to make sure everthing is good to start. half way through a cycle to make sure everything is still ok especially if it's a long cycle and also about 4 week's after PCT to make sure your levels have come to the same point that it was before you started.


PROHORMONE PCT


Most of us, who have been on this board for some time, know that you need a PCT after a PP or SD cycle. New members ask why we need to take all of these substances after a cycle. During a PP or SD cycle, your natural testosterone production can shut down. For many individuals the reduced natural test while put a halt to your sperm production. This is a problem if you want to have a child. After you finish your cycle, it can take months before your body starts to produce test on its own. During this time, your strength levels will diminish, your body fat levels will rise, and you could suffer from depression and have the temptation to jump on again. This would only make matters worse.

What might a typical PCT look like?
Weeks 1-4 100mg of Clomid (SERM) and 25mg of Aromasin (AI)

Why not nolva? Superdrol and pheraplex are progestins which means that means that nolva can cause or make existing gyno worse. Macrophage69alpha (supplement guru): Clomid does not upregulate the PgR (as nolva does). After speaking with Macro, he recommended stacking clomid (SERM) and aromasin (AI) together. The aromasin is not supposed to have a negative impact on blood lipid levels, like other AI's can.

What are some support supplements that I should be concerned with? Go to the supplement forum and examine, closely, Bryan2's stickie on cholesterol, liver, and blood pressure support supplements.

Because SD and PP are progestins, they can be hard on your libido and your ability to have erections, during PCT. I've found that 800-1200mg of tongkat ali to be a good choice for libido purposes. As for the ability to have erections, then the cialis (or viagra) is the only way to go. I prefer cialis because it stays in your system for 36 hours. This lets you be more spontaneous, which your woman will appreciate.

For those of you wanting to make sure your sperm count and motility are up to par, here are some supplements and research chemicals that can help: Arginine, Zinc, Vitamin C, Coenzyme Q10, Flaxseed Oil, L-carnitine, Selenium, Vitamin B12, Vitamin E, DHEA, Panax Ginseng, Astragalus, Sarsaparilla, and Clomid. This is more of a concern for those wanting to father a child.

Aromasin


Aromasin (Exemestane) is one of those weird compounds that nobody really knows what to do with. What we generally hear about it makes it very uninteresting…It’s a third generation Aromatase Inhibitor (AI) just like Arimidex (Anastrozole) and Femera (Letrozole). Both of those two drugs are very efficient at stopping the conversion of androgens into estrogen, and since we have them, why bother with Aromasin? It’s a little harder to get than the other two commonly used aromatase inhibitors, because it’s not in high demand, and there’s never been a readily apparent advantage to using it.



Aromasin doesn’t have much of a ring to it, and exemestane is even worse. Arimidex has a bunch of cool abbreviations ("A-dex" or just ‘dex) and even Letrozole is just "Letro" to most people. Where’s the cool nickname for Aromasin/exemestane? A-Sin? E-Stane? It just doesn’t work. It’s the black sheep of AIs. And why do we even need it when we have Letrozole, which is by far the most efficient AI for stopping aromatization (the process by which your body converts testosterone into estrogen)? Letro can reduce estrogen levels by 98% or greater; clinically a dose as low as 100mcgs has been shown to provide maximum aromatase inhibition (2)! So why would we need any other AIs? Well, first of all, estrogen is necessary for healthy joints (3) as well as a healthy immune system (4). So getting rid of 98% of the estrogen in your body for an extended period of time may not be the best of ideas. This may be useful on an extreme cutting cycle, leading up to a bodybuilding contest, or if you are particularly prone to gyno, but certainly can’t be used safely for extended periods of time without compromising your joints and immune system.

So that leaves us with Arimidex, which isn’t as potent as Letrozole, but at .5mgs/day will still get rid of around half (50%) of the estrogen in your body. Problem solved, right? Use Arimidex on your typical cycles, and if you are very prone to gyno or are getting ready for a contest, use Letro.

But what about Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)?

I think at this point most people are sold on the use of Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) instead of Clomid for PCT, since both compete estrogen at the receptor site, both increase serum test levels, and both drugs may also alter blood lipid profiles favorably (6). But since 20mgs of Tamoxifen is equal to 150mgs of clomid for purposes of testosterone elevation, FSH and LH, but Tamoxifen doesn’t decrease the LH response to LHRH (6) I think most people agree to Nolvadex’s superiority for PCT.

I’ve always been in favor of using Nolvadex during PCT, along with an AI, because reducing estrogen levels has been positively correlated with an increase in testosterone (7) so in my mind, it’s be beneficial to increase testosterone by as many mechanisms as possible while trying to recover your endogenous testosterone levels after a cycle. SO which AI do we use? Letro or A-dex? Well, why don’t we just keep using whichever one we used during the cycle, and add in some Nolvadex? Unfortunately, Nolvadex will significantly reduce the blood plasma levels of both Letrozole as well as Arimidex (8). So if we choose to use one of them with our Nolvadex on PCT, we’re throwing away a bit of money as the Nolvadex will be reducing their effectiveness.

This, of course, is where Aromasin comes in, at 20-25mgs/day.

Aromasin, at that dose, will raise your testosterone levels by about 60%, and also help out your free to bound testosterone ratio by lowering levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), by about 20% (12)…SHBG is that nasty enzyme that binds to testosterone and renders it useless for building muscle. But what about using it along with Nolvadex for PCT?

To understand why Aromasin may be useful in conjunction with Nolvadex while both Letro and A-dex suffer reduced effectiveness, we’ll need to first understand the differences between a Type-I and Type-II Aromatase Inhibitor. Type I inhibitors (like Aromasin) are actually steroidal compounds, while type II inhibitors (like Letro and A-dex) are non-steroidal drugs. Hence, androgenic side effects are very possible with Type-I AIs, and they should probably be avoided by women. Of course, there are some similarities between the two types of AIs…both type I & type II AIs mimic normal substrates (essentially androgens), allowing them to compete with the substrate for access to the binding site on the aromatase enzyme. After this binding, the next step is where things differ greatly for the two different types of AI’s. In the case of a type-I AI, the noncompetitive inhibitor will bind, and the enzyme initiates a sequence of hydroxylation; this hydroxylation produces an unbreakable covalent bond between the inhibitor and the enzyme protein. Now, enzyme activity is permanently blocked; even if all unattached inhibitor is removed. Aromatase enzyme activity can only be restored by new enzyme synthesis. Now, on the other hand, competitive inhibitors, called type II AI’s, reversibly bind to the active enzyme site, and one of two things can happen: 1.) either no enzyme activity is triggered or 2.) the enzyme is somehow triggered without effect. The type II inhibitor can now actually disassociate from the binding site, eventually allowing renewed competition between the inhibitor and the substrate for binding to the site. This means that the effectiveness of competitive aromatase inhibitors depends on the relative concentrations and affinities of both the inhibitor and the substrate, while this is not so for noncompetitive inhibitors. Aromasin is a type-I inhibitor, meaning that once it has done its job, and deactivated the aromatase enzyme, we don’t need it anymore. Letrozole and Arimidex actually need to remain present to continue their effects. This is possibly why Nolvadex does not alter the pharmacokinetics of Aromasin (11).

Before we close the book on Aromasin, it’s worth noting that you can (and should) still use one of the non-steroidal AIs during your cycle to reduce estrogen, if necessary. When you are ready for PCT, you can then switch over to Aromasin and still experience the full effects of an AI, since there is no cross-over tolerance experienced between steroidal and non-steroidal AIs (9). Since Aromasin is about 65% efficient at suppressing estrogen (10), it’s certainly a very powerful agent, especially considering you won’t experience reduced effectiveness because of your concurrent use of Nolvadex or from any sort of tolerance developed by using other AIs on your cycle(9). There is also a decent amount of preclinical data suggesting that Aromasin has a beneficial effect on bone mineral metabolism that is not seen with non-steroidal agents, and it may also have beneficial effects on lipid metabolism that are not found in the non-steroidal Letro and A-dex (9).

Finally, as we’re going to be using Nolvadex for PCT anyway, and we ought to be using an AI with it for maximum recovery…I think Aromasin- considering it’s compatibility with Nolvadex and beneficial effects on bone mineral content and lipid profile, has finally stopped being the black sheep of AIs and found a home in our Cycles.

A good combo is nolvadex+Aromasin,thats what i use now:
I dug this info out, hope it helps