Spinal Fusion?

[seapro]

Hey fellas I need some input on my f'd up spine. Long story short, was injured in an explosion a few years back compliments of hajji. My back has steadily degraded and in July finally gave way. X-rays, MRI's and ultra sound show one partially fractured vertebrae, one absent disc, three severely narrowed discs, two disc bulges and one herniated. All this in my lumbar region by the way. Anyway the VA has been doing nothing but giving me buckets of vicoden in the months since but are now advocating for spinal fusion. Anyway, most people I have talked to have not had a great experience with this but I'd like to get some input from this board specifically. So if anyone was unlucky enough to go through this shit and has some advice, let me know. Thanks

[2425]

Originally Posted by seapro

Hey fellas I need some input on my f'd up spine. Long story short, was injured in an explosion a few years back compliments of hajji. My back has steadily degraded and in July finally gave way. X-rays, MRI's and ultra sound show one partially fractured vertebrae, one absent disc, three severely narrowed discs, two disc bulges and one herniated. All this in my lumbar region by the way. Anyway the VA has been doing nothing but giving me buckets of vicoden in the months since but are now advocating for spinal fusion. Anyway, most people I have talked to have not had a great experience with this but I'd like to get some input from this board specifically. So if anyone was unlucky enough to go through this shit and has some advice, let me know. Thanks

I dont have experience with it but I would say make sure you get a good surgeon! Backs are tough and I have never heard anyone say I had back surgery now I feel better. But then again Peyton Manning (nfl quaterback) just had a spinal fusion if they did it to the 100 million dollar man they must think it works.

[Pack11]

I can't offer a whole bunch of advice on spinal fusions, but I know bustybabe (a member here) had some really bad back problems (maybe not as bad as yours). But her doctor prescribed her 4 iu a day of hgh and she said it has helped significantly. I would give that a shot before a spinal fusion. (FYI, you can't take a short cut and use Chinese hgh, you will 100% never know if you gave it an appropriate effort). If your doc is cool with prescribing narcotics, ask him about GH (much less dangerous and much less addictive). Busty said she only pays a couple dollars an iu for an off brand pharma. If your doc isn't cool, shoot me a pm and I can hook you up with a domestic pharma source... but it gets pricey, like $10 an iu.

I used to live in SLC when I was a kid... I'm not mormon or LDS though lol

-Pack

[WetWorks]

Bump 2425 and Pack11

[BustyBabe]

I had spinal fusion 10 years ago -- L4/L5 with cadaver bone, 2 rods, and 3 screws. The disc exploded while I was preparing for a power lift competition. I also had mild stenosis. I had been having problems with my back for about 2 years prior but refused to stop my intense daily training and tried various physical therapies. I can say that the fusion saved my life and I am one of the few who has had a succesful outcome even though I still had some pain after the surgery but was able to deal. I was and continue to be extremely vigilant about my back -- I train correctly and constantly, endure painful deep tissue massages, keep a very low body weight, do PT periodically when I feel I need it, stretch, use an inversion table, ice and use NSAIDS and pain meds when needed. About a year ago I started daily injections of 4 IUs of growth which have helped me immensly -- I cannot live without it! The most important advice I can give you is that you should research your doctor and use a spinal orthopaedic doctor and run as fast as you can from neurosurgeons. I continue to train hard but smart so for some of us there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. That said, once your spine is bad it will always be the central focus of your life (and, unfortunately, those around you). I just celebrated my 10 year anniversary and although I still have intermittent pain, for most of the time I feel well. (BTW -- 5 months after the fusion I fell and broke my shoulder which landed me 6 months in the "screaming room" of the PT facility). Be careful of your balance because a bad spine can through off your balance even though doctors don't tell you that. Feel free to PM me with any questions or concerns. Back people are like a club lol. Research, research, research and be smart about what you do with your body.

[seapro]

I ordered some Kyg mid november in anticipation of making that decision but it hasn't arrived quite yet due some shipping problems. K says it'll be here this week though so I'll give it a try after I educate myself more about it. I'm fairly sure that'll help with the little fracture but I haven't read anything as it relates to disc degeneration. I just watched a few videos of fusions and they're a little f'd up to say the least. I don't see how pounding the shit out of my spine with a mallet just to insert a tiny bone graft is going to do the job. But i do know I can't keep living with this amount of pain anymore so maybe its the best thing to do. Anyway thanks for the feedback

[BustyBabe]

The operation is actually 2 operations -- they go in from the front, move your gizzards around, sew you up then bring in the second team, turn the table over, and slice you down the spine and put in the hardware. Don't watch any videos -- find a couple of great docs and let them explain it to you. If there's a good physical therapist in your area go and talk to them -- they're the best resource for docs in your area.

[seapro]

Originally Posted by BustyBabe

I had spinal fusion 10 years ago -- L4/L5 with cadaver bone, 2 rods, and 3 screws. The disc exploded while I was preparing for a power lift competition. I also had mild stenosis. I had been having problems with my back for about 2 years prior but refused to stop my intense daily training and tried various physical therapies. I can say that the fusion saved my life and I am one of the few who has had a succesful outcome even though I still had some pain after the surgery but was able to deal. I was and continue to be extremely vigilant about my back -- I train correctly and constantly, endure painful deep tissue massages, keep a very low body weight, do PT periodically when I feel I need it, stretch, use an inversion table, ice and use NSAIDS and pain meds when needed. About a year ago I started daily injections of 4 IUs of growth which have helped me immensly -- I cannot live without it! The most important advice I can give you is that you should research your doctor and use a spinal orthopaedic doctor and run as fast as you can from neurosurgeons. I continue to train hard but smart so for some of us there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. That said, once your spine is bad it will always be the central focus of your life (and, unfortunately, those around you). I just celebrated my 10 year anniversary and although I still have intermittent pain, for most of the time I feel well. (BTW -- 5 months after the fusion I fell and broke my shoulder which landed me 6 months in the "screaming room" of the PT facility). Be careful of your balance because a bad spine can through off your balance even though doctors don't tell you that. Feel free to PM me with any questions or concerns. Back people are like a club lol. Research, research, research and be smart about what you do with your body.

That definitely makes me more optimistic so thanks. I continued to train after my main injury in july but doc's told me two months ago to get out of the gym for the time being. Since then the pain has become just f'ing absurd. And I think the more my erector spinae atrophy, the worse it'll become. Also I had just finished a cycle at the time so I quickly lost plenty of mass. I don't see how it can get any worse pain-wise so unless I'm told I'm risking paralysis I'll be going back to the gym. Funny you mention the spinal ortho doc because I just heard that from a friend earlier this week. Unfortunately though I'm at the VA and apparently they only have neurosurgeons here for those procedures. So how was the initial recovery like? As in physical limitations and duration. And if you get a script for GH is it still out of pocket? That would be way out of my financial means if I had to keep paying for it. Happy anniversary and thanks again

[BustyBabe]

Originally Posted by seapro

That definitely makes me more optimistic so thanks. I continued to train after my main injury in july but doc's told me two months ago to get out of the gym for the time being. Since then the pain has become just f'ing absurd. And I think the more my erector spinae atrophy, the worse it'll become. Also I had just finished a cycle at the time so I quickly lost plenty of mass. I don't see how it can get any worse pain-wise so unless I'm told I'm risking paralysis I'll be going back to the gym. Funny you mention the spinal ortho doc because I just heard that from a friend earlier this week. Unfortunately though I'm at the VA and apparently they only have neurosurgeons here for those procedures. So how was the initial recovery like? As in physical limitations and duration. And if you get a script for GH is it still out of pocket? That would be way out of my financial means if I had to keep paying for it. Happy anniversary and thanks again

First, as to training, when your spine is so badly comprimised you never know what else can happen -- do you have "drop foot"? As to the initial recovery, waking up in recovery room was brutal as they administered morphine to me which I told the doc previous to the surgery that it doesn''t work on me so I went 24 hours post op with nothing -- I'll let you figure that out. Morning after the surgery I was told I was dying and was transfused with my own blood that I had stored before the surgery (good idea to do that) The PT came into my room while I was being transfused and still had the catheter and said I'll come back later but i got up and walked right then. First couple of weeks were tough but very doable and there are great products for around the house that really help and insurance will cover many of them. I had about 5 months of physical therapy and it really was a piece of cake -- I guess if you're a weightlifter and in shape it really helps. The growth is not covered by insurance. If they only have neurosurgeons, do your research on the docs they have available. It's amazing what you can find online. Trust me, the whole thing is a bitch but I got through and I had 2 kids and a husband to take care of. Just keep the image of where you want your body to be and you'll get there.

[seapro]

wow, you're a total bad ass. Glad you didn't die. Although that seriously makes me question this a little. It's good to hear that recovery wasn't all that horrific though. I was just worried about maybe being relegated to a bed for 6 months and finally rolling out of it at 130 lbs of worthlessness. What about taking GH surrounding the time of procedure? Like during recovery or prior to. Also what is it called exactly when they store your blood beforehand? Thanks, you're my hero

[Oxman]

Hey if you guys need any more info on spine fusions been threw both cervical & lumbar fused c5-c7& L3-S1 now L1-2 are collapsing and angulated and the pain is off the f<€king charts but still in the gym even though doc said to stop.... In my case it hurts worse when not working out... Well just thought I'd throw that out there for you... Hope all works out for you lift safe take care...

[Mirrorshades]

Originally Posted by seapro

Also what is it called exactly when they store your blood beforehand? Thanks, you're my hero

Autologous donations or autologous blood-banking.

See the following link for more information:

Blood Banking

Mirrorshades

[parousiaa]

Hey Seapro what up Busty?

Man I've got to start out by saying no one really knows pain until they have had serious back pain - it can really shut you down - Literally. I have had a surgery on my back At the VA seapro and man they act like prescribing narcotics is against the law- LOL Seriously they tried to give me the lowest dosages possible on everything and I explained to the doc I understand about many people comming here to drug seek yada yada but I AM IN SERIOUS PAIN!!! So with that said I highly doubt that their gonna give you a script for any gh - but give it a shot in chicago forgeta bout it. Anyways I went through all the process maximized the amounts of cortizone that they will give to no avail so finally I had the surgery L5 S1 herniated disc 2 other buldging disc and a degenerative spine is what all they said. The surgery went well on L5 S1 walked out of the hospital the same day. However 6 months later all of the same freaking pain came back my sciatic nerve was screaming at me and I was right back where I started with my pain levels. They prescribed me this med called gabapentin- That crap gave me edema in my left ankle and they couldn't even explain why- needless to say - it sucked! I had to wear support hose and all that shit I'm 42 not 82. All I have to say about the VA is you get what you pay for- seek an outside opinion before letting them cut n you and that was advice given to me by a VA nurse before I was going in to get a cortizone shot.

[BustyBabe]

^^^ bump to everything parousiaa says

As to pain meds, women get even less than guys -- went to a pain specialist and with my films up on the screen, this world renowned physician doesnt ask me a question or make eye contact, and while looking at the films which show all my hardware says "have you thought about seeing a psychiatrist?" . . . to which I replied "If I had a penis you would never ask me that question". While it is true that most people have negative results from fusion mine have been pretty good and a know a couple of other people who had positive outcomes and they were also female which makes me think that we take this a little more seriously and are more compliant about our after care. Seapro - best thing you can do is speak to a local physical therapist (can be one with the VA) and find out who they think is the best within your list -- they know best and most of them are pretty honest -- try to find a PT who's mid 30s. Also, I would stop the working out because it's just going to make it worse -- I modified my workout drastically and trained with a good friend who was both a bodybuilder and a physical therapist. I know what you're going thru PM me with anything. Trust me, having to take off 20 lbs. of muscle that I had trained so hard for killed me but remember your spine doesn't know if it's muscle or fat -- the lighter you are right now the better.

[seapro]

Hey Paro, I had a nurse advise me the same way as far as seeking an outside opinion. I do plan on doing that but I kind of fail to understand the point since ultimately the VA will be the ones doing the procedure and they probably won't give a shit about what some alternate hospital has to say about it. I mean, what do I do with the outside analysis if I can't afford to go anywhere else anyway? It is amazing how fucked the VA is though. Every time I think I've just had bad luck there I always end up being reaffirmed by someone else how horrible it is. Good luck man I hope it turns out alright for you at some point soon. Busty I've been referred to a spinal doc by my PT guy, so I'm going to meet up with him next week. My therapist is the shit too, he works for our local NFL team and the spine doc he referred me to works with athletes. The f'd up part is that PT guy explained to me there's a direct correlation of fusion success with surgical cost; and being that I'm not going to be paying anything, I shouldn't be overly optimistic. Anyway what do you guys think about using GH around the time of the surgery?

[BustyBabe]

Well, quality usually costs but that doesn't mean you can't get good care. It's great you're meeting with a good doc -- pick his brain and have him explain all options to you and then you can discuss with the VA doc. Sometimes docs react differently to people who are informed and this might help you with the VA doc because you'll be educated and can discuss with knowledge. And I think you should remain totally positive and expect the very best treatment and outcome. I think growth is manna from the gods.

[seapro]

Thanks. I don't know what manna is but I'll assume it's a good thing.

[BustyBabe]

Originally Posted by seapro

Thanks. I don't know what manna is but I'll assume it's a good thing.

Manna is considered to be a substance provided miraculously by G-d for the Israelites to eat while in the wilderness so it's a miraculous thing. That's what growth is to me.

[parousiaa]

listen when I went in fornt of the neurosurgeon at the VA he knew tha I had done my home work because I described to him the different type of surgerys that are done for the issues that I had with my back (in a way I think it kinda impressed him) I knew that they had minimum evasive, laser or their traditional surgery procedure that they do their I made sure to ask him which one was he most comfortable with, which one he was best at and most importantly when dealing with the VA which one will the VA allow for him to do cost considering. It made me feel good that I came at him this way because he knew from that moment tha the wasn't dealing with a smoe. the funny thinsg about the VA is if they dont see that youre proactive and curious about your recovery they will just treat you like an average guinne pig as they do most of thiose seniors that rotate through there. So my advice to you seapro is definitely do your homework as bust says be diligent you're dealing with the government here and if possible put in a claim and say that it was military related so tha you can get service connected if you're not already

[seapro]

THanks buddy, I will definitely be doing as much research possible prior to my next consult. Your guys input has been great and I'm am very appreciative so next weekend beers are on me.