Baking Times

[breakthrough]

I noticed that homebrew some instructions call for baking different hormones for different lengths of time at different temperatures. For example, on one site I found that the the EQ instructions call for 45 minutes at 250 degrees whereas the Test E instructions call for only 15 minutes at 200 degrees. I was under the impression that 30 minutes at 225 degrees was pretty standard. I'd like some insight on this.

[badstone]

I always go @ 225 for 20min

[^mR.]

Originally Posted by badstone

I always go @ 225 for 20min

Bump.

[shadowmanII]

Why bake? Any temp high enough to sterilize anything is far above the melting point of the hormone.

[breakthrough]

Originally Posted by shadowmanII

Why bake? Any temp high enough to sterilize anything is far above the melting point of the hormone.

Would you care to back this up with some literature because, no offense, but your word means jack as a new member here. There's a ton of experienced guys in the know who do this so I'd be inclined to think there's something to it. Thanks.

[megaman85]

im with Bads, ive always baked at 225 for at least 30min. I like 225 because its going to kill any bacteria, but not too high.

[cookiedough]

Originally Posted by shadowmanII

Why bake? Any temp high enough to sterilize anything is far above the melting point of the hormone.

Killing the bacteria is, obviously, the point of baking.

Most bacteria are killed at 100 degrees C = 212 degrees F (water boils @ 212 F)
Only a few hormone's melting points are lower than boiling water.

So, the temperature high enough to sterilize is FAR below the melting point of most hormones.

Regardless, re-melting the hormone has no impact on it's effectiveness. Baking at 225 F kills the little nasties with room to spare.

Here are the melting points of hormones provided by Basskiller (a respected vet here and on many other boards):

Androstanolone- 5a-ANDROSTAN-17b-OL-3-ONE
(SAME AS 5a-Dihydrotestosterone)
melting point= 177-182C
molecular weight= 290.40
rotation= +33 c=1 CHCL3

Boldenone- 1,4-ANDROSTADIEN-17B-OL-3-ONE
melting point= 167-172C
molecular weight= 286.40
rotation= +22 CHCL3

BOLDENONE UNDECLYNATE- 1,4-ANDROSTADIEN-17B-OL-3-ONE-UNDECYLENATE
melting point=
molecular weight=
rotation=

CLOMIFENE CITRATE-2-(p- (2-chloro-1,2-diphenylvinyl)phenoxy) triethylamine citrate (1:1)
melting point= 116.5C
molecular weight= 598.09

CLOSTEBOL- 4-ANDROSTEN-4-CHLORO-17b-OL-3-ONE
melting point= 187-188C
molecular weight= 322.89
rotation= +150 CHLF

DROSTANOLONE- 5a-ANDROSTAN-2a-METHYL-17b-OL-3-ONE
(SAME AS DROMOSTANOLONE)
melting point= 149-153C
molecular weight= 304.36
rotation= +32 MeOH

Letrozole-4,4'-(1H-1,2,4 -Triazol-1-ylmethylene) dibenzonitrile
melting point= 184-185C
molecular weight= 285.31

MESTEROLONE- 5a-ANDROSTAN-1a-METHYL-17b-OL-3-ONE
melting point= 202-206C
molecular weight= 304.36
rotation= =18 CHCL3

METHANDIONONE- 1,4-ANDROSTADIEN-17a-METHYL-17B-OL-3-ONE
(SAME AS METHYLANDROSTENOLONE)
melting point= 162-164C
molecular weight= 300.42
rotation= +0 CHCL3

METHENOLONE- 1,5a-ANDROSTEN-1-METHYL-17b-OL-3-ONE
melting point= 164-165C
molecular weight=
rotation= +58 CHLF

METHYL testosterone
melting point= 162-167c
molecular weight= 302.46

nandrolone- 4-ESTREN-17b-OL-3-ONE
melting point= 122-125C
molecular weight= 274.38
rotation= +56 C=1 CHCL3

nandrolone ACETATE- 4-ESTREN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-ACETATE
melting point= 89-93C
molecular weight= 316.41
rotation= +49 C=1 CHCL3

nandrolone BENZOATE- 4-ESTREN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-BENZOATE
melting point= 170-175C
molecular weight= 378.49
rotation= +104 C=1 CHCL3

nandrolone DECANOATE- 4-ESTREN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-DECANOATE
melting point= 30-35C
molecular weight= 428.63
rotation=

nandrolone PHENYLPROPIONATE- 4-ESTREN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-PHENYLPROPIONATE
melting point= 92-96C
molecular weight= 406.54
rotation= +58 C=1 CHCL3

nandrolone PROPIONATE- 4-ESTREN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-PROPIONATE
melting point= 55-60C
molecular weight= 330.45
rotation= +41 C=1 CHCL3

OXANDROLONE-
melting point= 235-238C

OXYMETHOLONE- 5a-ANDROSTAN-17a-METHYL-17b-OL-2-
HYDROXYMETHYLENE-3-ONE
melting point= 177-180C
molecular weight= 332.47
rotation= +38 ETOH

SPIRONOLACTONE- 4,17a-PREGNEN-21-CARBOXYLIC ACID-17b-OL-3-ONE-7a-THIOL 21-17 GAMMA LACTONE 7-ACETATE
(SAME AS ALDACTONE)
melting point= 207C
molecular weight= 416-.59
rotation=

STANOZOLOL- 5a-ANDROSTAN-17a-METHYL-17b-OL-3,
2c-PYRAZOLE
melting point prisms= 228-242C (235C)
melting point needles= 155C
molecular weight= 328.42
rotation= +36 CHCL3

Tadalafil-
melting point= 298-300C
molecular weight= 389.41
roatation= [a]20D: +70 DEG to +73 DEG

Tamoxifen CITRATE- 2-[4-1,2-Diphenyl-1-Butenyl)
melting point= 143-146C
molecular weight= 563.65

testosterone BASE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE
melting point= 154-155C
molecular weight= 288.4
rotation= +102 degrees C=1 CHCL3

testosterone ACETATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-ACETATE
melting point=140-144C
molecular weight=330.45
rotation= +59 C=1 ACETONE

testosterone BENZOATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-BENZOATE
melting point=191-196C
molecular weight=392.52
rotation= +155 C=1 CHCL3

testosterone CYPIONATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-CYCLOPENTYLPROPIONATE
(SAME AS testosterone CYCLOPENTYLPROPIONATE)
melting point=98-102C
molecular weight=412.59
rotation= +87 C=1 CHCL3

testosterone ENANTHATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-ENANTHATE
(SAME AS testosterone HEPTANOATE)
melting point=32-36C
molecular weight=400.61
rotation= +84 C=1 CHCL3

TESTOSETERONE DECANOATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-n-DECANOATE
melting point=47-49C
molecular weight=
rotation= +72 DIOXANE

testosterone ISOBUTYRATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-ISOBUTYRATE
melting point=124-128C
molecular weight=358.50

testosterone ISOCAPRONATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE ISOCAPRONATE
melting point=53-55C
rotation= +86 CHLF

testosterone VALERATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-VALERATE
(SAME AS testosterone PENTANOATE)
melting point=106-109C
molecular weight=372.53
rotation= +92 C=1 CHCL3

testosterone PHENYLPROPIONATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 3-PHENYLPROPIONATE
melting point=115-116C
rotation= +98 CHLF

testosterone PROPIONATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-PROPIONATE
melting point=118-122C
molecular weight=344.50
rotation= +86 C=1 DIOXANE

testosterone UNDECANOATE- 4-Androsten-17b-ol-3-one 17-undecanoate
melting point=
molecular weight=
rotation=

trenbolone ACETATE-
melting point= 94-97C

TURINABOL- 4-ANDROSTEN-4-CHLORO-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-ACETATE
melting point= 225-230C
molecular weight= 364.89
rotation= =118 CHCL3

[breakthrough]

That's what I'm talking about!! CD shut it mofo's! Take that! You made a typo though buddy and put 112 degrees instead of 212...I knew what you meant. Going to be hard to argue with this.

[cookiedough]

Fixed, thnx.

[shadowmanII]

Originally Posted by breakthrough

That's what I'm talking about!! CD shut it mofo's! Take that! You made a typo though buddy and put 112 degrees instead of 212...I knew what you meant. Going to be hard to argue with this.

Unless you're using an autoclave, 225F is just gonna make your gear warm. You need alteast 320F for a minimum of an hour in a dry heat setting, such as your oven. But even then, why try to sterilize in your oven anyway? lol... I dunno how some pieces of advice become so common.

And just because I'm "new" doesn't mean I'm new. It just means I don't normally pay to talk to people on forums. Just figured that until my month runs out I'd pass on some knowledge, meathead.

And there are about 23 hormones listed that probably would reach their melting point of >160C (320F). Not including the ones that have no melting point mentioned. Well over half.

[cookiedough]

Originally Posted by shadowmanII

Unless you're using an autoclave, 225F is just gonna make your gear warm. You need alteast 320F for a minimum of an hour in a dry heat setting, such as your oven. But even then, why try to sterilize in your oven anyway? lol... I dunno how some pieces of advice become so common.

And just because I'm "new" doesn't mean I'm new. It just means I don't normally pay to talk to people on forums. Just figured that until my month runs out I'd pass on some knowledge, meathead.

And there are about 23 hormones listed that probably would reach their melting point of >160C (320F). Not including the ones that have no melting point mentioned. Well over half.

Please enlighten us with your sources so we can learn. At this point, everything I've read says you're misinformed. I'm always eager to learn and I left the ego at the login. I think it's fair for me to ask for your source(s) as you are proffering a position that goes against the "common advice," as you've said.

I've just found an autoclave chart that conflicts with what your stating: http://www.sterilizers.com/autoclave...ure-chart.html

Using a steam autoclave at one atmosphere i.e. 15 psi the boiling point of water is raised to 250 F and requires only 15 minutes to fully sterilize loose medical materials. Double the atmosphere to 30 psi and the boiling point is raised to 270 F and only requires 3 minutes to thoroughly sterilize medical equipment.

Here's the source of the data: As published by Jada, (Journal of American Dental Association)
Vol 122 December 1991

Short of a better source than JADA, I think I'll stick with what's proven and ignore the undocumented, personal opinion of someone I don't know.

[breakthrough]

Seriously bro, if you can't back your words with studies or documentation, it's just your word.....and I already told you what that's worth!

[breakthrough]

Originally Posted by shadowmanII

Unless you're using an autoclave, 225F is just gonna make your gear warm. You need alteast 320F for a minimum of an hour in a dry heat setting, such as your oven. But even then, why try to sterilize in your oven anyway? lol... I dunno how some pieces of advice become so common.

And just because I'm "new" doesn't mean I'm new. It just means I don't normally pay to talk to people on forums. Just figured that until my month runs out I'd pass on some knowledge, meathead.
And there are about 23 hormones listed that probably would reach their melting point of >160C (320F). Not including the ones that have no melting point mentioned. Well over half.

Well if you've been around the block so many times, you cocky bitch, just show the documented studies already! And if you're so not new, why did you need to pay? Because you probably needed sources which is unlike the people who are in the know. If want us to think you paid for the membership just so you can educate us, you must be drunk!

[singleton_in2014]

So i'm a little interested. I know a lot don't even bake anymore because BA sterilizes. Im under the impression you stick a 25 gauge needle into vent. The rubber doesn't melt though?

[shadowmanII]

Originally Posted by cookiedough

Please enlighten us with your sources so we can learn. At this point, everything I've read says you're misinformed. I'm always eager to learn and I left the ego at the login. I think it's fair for me to ask for your source(s) as you are proffering a position that goes against the "common advice," as you've said.

I've just found an autoclave chart that conflicts with what your stating: Autoclave Time Temperature Pressure Chart

Using a steam autoclave at one atmosphere i.e. 15 psi the boiling point of water is raised to 250 F and requires only 15 minutes to fully sterilize loose medical materials. Double the atmosphere to 30 psi and the boiling point is raised to 270 F and only requires 3 minutes to thoroughly sterilize medical equipment.

Here's the source of the data: As published by Jada, (Journal of American Dental Association)
Vol 122 December 1991

Short of a better source than JADA, I think I'll stick with what's proven and ignore the undocumented, personal opinion of someone I don't know.

Autoclave uses pressure & steam. Ovens don't. That's why you don't need a higher temp in an autoclave. Sources aren't needed for common knowledge. And why would you try to sterilize in your baking oven, anyway?

Originally Posted by breakthrough

Well if you've been around the block so many times, you cocky bitch, just show the documented studies already! And if you're so not new, why did you need to pay? Because you probably needed sources which is unlike the people who are in the know. If want us to think you paid for the membership just so you can educate us, you must be drunk!

I paid to check up on a source I've been using for awhile. This was the only place I've found that people knew what was going on with him. And surprise, most of these sources...actually all but one, I have found on open boards. I was actually kinda disappointed because I thought they would be more private. And even the guy I use is mentioned in almost every forum. And I didn't pay just to educate. I could've done that in the non-VIP forum. I just decided to hang around until my month runs out. If it really makes you feel better to "sterilize" by baking at low temps for short amounts of time, then by all means keep doing it.

Originally Posted by singleton_in2014

So i'm a little interested. I know a lot don't even bake anymore because BA sterilizes. Im under the impression you stick a 25 gauge needle into vent. The rubber doesn't melt though?

BA doesn't really sterilize. It doesn't allow new bacteria or spores to grow. The filter takes care of almost all of the sterilization. But, no, the rubber won't melt. Especially not at the temp and times these guys are saying to use.

[cookiedough]

You have an opinion with no proof. Good luck w/your ignorance.

[shadowmanII]

Originally Posted by cookiedough

You have an opinion with no proof. Good luck w/your ignorance.

You just proved my point by sourcing JADA and how an autoclave works.

[cookiedough]

Originally Posted by shadowmanII

You just proved my point by sourcing JADA and how an autoclave works.

Temperature is what sterilizes. 212 F is really all that's required, but 225 F doesn't adversely affect the hormone. An autoclave reaches these temps quicker, but since most brewers don't have an autoclave, the oven works just fine.

That's the point and the fact. Shadowman II shouldn't spread misinformation to boost his own ego, especially when his poor advice could harm the reader.

If you cannot defend or support your opinion, keep it to yourself. Playground debate techniques don't work so save the childish replies too.

[WetWorks]

225 degrees until the gear suspends. I think the word sterilization is getting used to much, cause gear isn't sterile. gear is just clean, like it was mentioned earlier BA only keep bacteria from growing and getting out of control.

[megaman85]

bump that, nothing we are using is Completely sterile. When you suspend your gear, if you arent in a pressure treated room, etc your gear isnt "sterile". When you put that gear into a sterile vial, it still does not make the gear sterile. I dont know much about what shadowmann and cookie are talking about, but i do know that ive brewed a WHOLE lot of aas, and never have gotten an infection or became ill, so ill stick to what works for me. If there is proof proving otherwise, ill research it and go from there.

All i know is at the end of the day, i stick a big ole syringe into my bottle of unsterile gear, pull up around 3ml of it, plant it 1.5 inches into my body, and push the plunger down like there is no tomorrow....... AHHHHH works for me guys......

[cookiedough]

Originally Posted by megaman85

bump that, nothing we are using is Completely sterile. When you suspend your gear, if you arent in a pressure treated room, etc your gear isnt "sterile". When you put that gear into a sterile vial, it still does not make the gear sterile. I dont know much about what shadowmann and cookie are talking about, but i do know that ive brewed a WHOLE lot of aas, and never have gotten an infection or became ill, so ill stick to what works for me. If there is proof proving otherwise, ill research it and go from there.

All i know is at the end of the day, i stick a big ole syringe into my bottle of unsterile gear, pull up around 3ml of it, plant it 1.5 inches into my body, and push the plunger down like there is no tomorrow....... AHHHHH works for me guys......

Bump this, I (we) am/are mis-using the word sterile. Brining the temp up past 212 F and sustaining that temp for 20-45 minutes stunts and/or inhibits the growth of bacteria. Those temps don't kill 100% of all bacteria, but enough to justify the procedure. Using an autoclave allows for higher temps for shorter times.

I've brewed and baked my share of gear without any infections to date using these time proven techniques. If it's in the oven or in the autoclave, heating the gear before using the gear is necessary.

[badstone]

No mater what you use to reach the desired temperature the temperature does not change. Use a thermometer in any heating utensil and you will see that 225F is 225F. Or just pick and Temp you want it will remain the same in everything you heat in. Temp and Time are two things that are out of our control to deviate.

[cookiedough]

Bump Bads, it's all in the temp & time regardless of method. That's the point and the fact, as stated earlier.

[pammy21.ll]

Hmm... a good amount of intake at well temperate .. its bumping jack for muscles..