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| Archived Greats Discuss HCG Info in the Steroid forums; Some HCG info from a Doctor on another board: "I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG ... |
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#1
02-17-2007, 05:14 PM
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HCG Info
Some HCG info from a Doctor on another board:
"I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery. Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully). If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive. The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well. I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are. I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?). All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols." I like to use 300IU twice a week, and it's easy to divide up from a 1500IU bottle. 
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#3
02-17-2007, 06:24 PM
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love the info bro
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#4
02-18-2007, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
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#6
03-02-2007, 07:26 AM
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Posted By OffRoadRacer
Hey guys, I am thinking about running some Test prop for the first time! I read through the doctors advice, and when talks about running an " AI " through the whole cycle what is he talking about? Also, so run 300iu of HCG twice a week for the entire cycle and stop within a week of the last shot? Now, did he say run Nov at 40mg ED for the entire cycle and for an additional month after? Sorry, I am pretty new and realize how important PCT is, I just don't want to mess up my body or loose any beautiful gains!
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#7
03-02-2007, 07:26 AM
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Posted By Action
He's most likely referring to an Aromatase Inhibitor, such as Arimidex, Letrozole or Aromasin...Niloc's got some pretty good posts on Aromasin, I think they're in the Archived Greats Forum... There are numerous benefits to running an AI throughout the course of your cycle if you're worried about keeping Estrogenic levels at bay on cycle... One of the most likely or important reasons to do this is to keep your water retention down and keep yourself leaner and less puffy, as Aromatase Inhibitors actually stop the Androgens from AAS into aromatising, thereby converting into Estrogen, which would in turn raise your Estrogen levels and give you the unwanted high Estrogenic sides.... However, limiting your Estrogen too much can result in higher cholesterol and if you're on a bulking cycle, you want the water retention... He is saying 250 to 500 iu's of HCG and discontinue within a week of the last shot...HCG "mimcs" the LH (Lutineizing Hormone) which stimulates the Gonads to produce natural Testosterone in the body, which gives us our natural Test in the first place...But this action actually inhibits or ceases the actions of the natural LH in the body and shuts down LH... The whole idea is that when you're on cycle, your body stops producing natural Test and by taking HCG you are continuing the actions of LH on the Gonads into continuously generating Test and thereby making PCT and HPTA recovery much quicker and easier... The problem is, if you continue HCG into PCT then you are further inhibiting your LH...Your whole purpose in PCT is to stimulate natural levels and jump start your Test into natural recovery...
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#8
03-02-2007, 07:26 AM
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OffroadRacer
Ok, I gotcha. Do you agree with all these protocols? What would you recomend, if you where in my shoes? I am 23, on first cycle of GH, Var and Clen. Looking to get really shredded and strong and maybe gain around 10 lbs of muscle. Could you maybe through in a recomended cycle also including the PCT? Thanks
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#9
03-02-2007, 01:21 PM
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The truth of the matter is, our bodies adapt to the foreign substances we are putting in our bodies (namely AAS) and change by affecting the HPTA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Gonadal Axis) which is responsible for releasing LH (Luteneizing Hormone) and FSH (Follicle Stimulating Hormone) which work in the Gonads (Testes) to produce Testosterone (which is what makes us all so manly)...Well, some more than others so to speak... This change shuts down our endogenous (natural) Testoserone production because of the exogenous (AAS) steroids we are putting into it... Now considering this, if we were to be on cycle and not replace it with exogenous Testosterone, then we are not getting the benefits of Testosterone, just the benefits of the AAS that we are using on cycle... Testosterone is responsible for so many things: - increased nitrogen retention in muscles - it increases IGF - it promotes sex drive - helps with fat loss - works synergistically with other AAS - is responsible for aggressive behaviour If you exclude this from your cycle, your falling short of what you can fully do on a cycle!
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#10
03-02-2007, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
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#11
03-02-2007, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
I can't speak for the GH, cause I've never done a cycle of it before...Niloc's the expert on that... Keep the GH, Var and Clen, cause I like the Clen and Var in a cycle anyway...I like Var for it's strength, hardening and vascular inducing properties, but I also like it cause of it's virtually non-toxicity and the fact that it doesn't aromatize...I like Clen cause of it's fat loss and anti-catabolic properties....I would throw in either a long or fast estered Test, or even a Test blend...Something like SuperTest would be nice or Test Prop (my favourite Test)... Either long or short, it doesn't matter...Test Prop isn't any better a cutter or bulker than Test Cyp or Test Enan can be, it all just matters how you train and what you eat... I remember, one of the biggest things I learned thru trial and error was the misconceptions between bulkers and cutters and what AAS can be used for either/or... If you go with Test Prop, run it at 100 mgs. eod, only run the Clen for 12 weeks total on a 2 week on 2 week off basis to let the beta receptors that Clen affects get back to normal, and either work it out so you're running the Clen midway thru cycle or into PCT...Run PCT 3 days after last injection...
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